I need a 3rd Gen man with courage...

Amish Elegance

Amish Elegance

Schadenfreude
Joined
May 1, 2006
Messages
3,465
to Unplug your FCA with the engine running for just long enough to tell me what pressure the rail spikes to. Preferably one with dual pumps, but I'm not that picky at this point.

Anyone who hasn't done this before and who is willing, be advised: It will be several seconds of anus clenching from the time the injector rattle hits your ears to the moment you get a reading and plug that thing back in. Make every effort to do so quickly.

If you've done this before and can remember, feel free to post up without doing it again. No sense in sacrifice if the goal is already documented. LOL

The hamsters in my head are running loose again, the word "diagnostic" has them energized. :hehe: (See Mrs. Shifter's signature.)
 
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Mine hits 26,900. That is as high as I have seen so I am assuming that is all my gauge or sensor will read. I have a stage 3 pump and it really is not a good sound to ever hear. Hope this helps.

Joe
 
That is one horrible sound to be coming from a motor. Scared the hell outta me the first and only time I did it.
 
stock pump/injectors hit around 25k...

You should sell a kit on ebay as a 3rd gen smoke switch (wire a switch up to cut the signal to the fca)... Make sure you specify that you are not responsible for damages though...:hehe:
 
cquestad said:
I do NOT ever need to do that again...

Pegged the gauge...
Click to expand...

I tried to warn you as clearly as possible.

Anyone who hasn't done this before and who is willing, be advised: It will be several seconds of anus clenching from the time the injector rattle hits your ears to the moment you get a reading and plug that thing back in. Make every effort to do so quickly.
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking one for the team. (Or me, as it were.) :hehe:


Thank you for all the replies and those of you who did this for the purpose of this thread.

The backstory: I am chasing something akin to a timing or light pressure rattle with my engine that appeared recently. I do not believe it to be the same as those in other threads on the topic. I do not have injectors that large or reduced compression (milled pistons).

This was not present when I picked up my truck from ED. Not constant, and primarily notable on throttle tip in. (Light throttle application.) It is present at higher throttle positions as well, but somewhat less noticeable because of other engine noises. I have removed all aftermarket programming or signal modification, and this afternoon had the local dealer completely re-flash the ECM successfully to insure a clean base. The problem persists in both cases. No DTC's.

Last night, Glenn from ED spent time with a DRB and measured all things fuel and pressure related. Cylinder kill tests did not allow us to narrow it down to one or two injectors. Each one we killed did not affect this sound with my engine. This makes it tough to point the finger soundly at an injector, as all performed with identical result. We briefly disconnected the top FCA on my twin CP3's and the DRB only read 19,995. That seemed a little low. I do not have gargantuan sticks to bleed the pressure off. Those of you who were courageous enough to accept this mission have soundly proven that.

I'm debating on where to go next. I do not believe the relief valve is blown as there are no corresponding symptoms. (Smoke, excessive power loss, ect.). I'll pull the banjo bolt on the valve tonight and solidly confirm.

DRB readings on a road test with and without external pressure box were lower than expected as well; just higher than 20,000 per DRB. Dual pumps and these comparatively tame injectors should easily see more than that, IMO.

Perhaps the error is in the pressure measurement? I would have thought a rail sensor failure would have presented a DTC. If the rail sensor can fail and read lower than actual, that could be a possible explanation as the ecm commands would be confirmed with a lower than actual reading; there-by increasing actual pressure to the rail. I don't know if that is even possible.

I am inclined to believe the injectors are not to blame at this point, but Glenn has graciously offered to prove this in the near future by swapping them with new one's if necessary. (Insert testiment to exceptional customer service here. :) ) There is no symptoms present to indicate a cracked tip, no increase in oil level, no excessive smoke. The engine has not seen excessive temperatures at all. Even starting from a bogged roll on with 1150 pyro reading, once the Engineered Diesel built turbos light the heat show is over by 1450 to north of triple digit speeds. I am quite certain there is no damage to any bottom end component due to heat, removal of oil cap produces no smoke or excessive pressure leading creed to this.

Again, to those of you who were kind enough to endure an ass puckering for this, I sincerely thank you. To those of you who are scarred for life, should I have the pleasure of meeting you at an event, I would be happy to offer beer therapy. :Cheer:

Any ideas?
 
BBRam said:
The FCA?
Click to expand...

Why yes, that was the intended acronym. Not AFC as originally stated. Those of you who found and unplugged your AFC on a third gen will need to repeat this test, please. :hehe:

My mental deficiency and dyslexia have been soundly noted. Thank you, BBRam.
 
jlibert said:
you don't notice the sound if you do it at WOT. ;)
Click to expand...

Ah.... people are becoming wise in the ways....
ph34r.gif
 
Amish Elegance said:
I tried to warn you as clearly as possible.



Thanks for taking one for the team. (Or me, as it were.) :hehe:


Thank you for all the replies and those of you who did this for the purpose of this thread.

The backstory: I am chasing something akin to a timing or light pressure rattle with my engine that appeared recently. I do not believe it to be the same as those in other threads on the topic. I do not have injectors that large or reduced compression (milled pistons).

This was not present when I picked up my truck from ED. Not constant, and primarily notable on throttle tip in. (Light throttle application.) It is present at higher throttle positions as well, but somewhat less noticeable because of other engine noises. I have removed all aftermarket programming or signal modification, and this afternoon had the local dealer completely re-flash the ECM successfully to insure a clean base. The problem persists in both cases. No DTC's.

Last night, Glenn from ED spent time with a DRB and measured all things fuel and pressure related. Cylinder kill tests did not allow us to narrow it down to one or two injectors. Each one we killed did not affect this sound with my engine. This makes it tough to point the finger soundly at an injector, as all performed with identical result. We briefly disconnected the top FCA on my twin CP3's and the DRB only read 19,995. That seemed a little low. I do not have gargantuan sticks to bleed the pressure off. Those of you who were courageous enough to accept this mission have soundly proven that.

I'm debating on where to go next. I do not believe the relief valve is blown as there are no corresponding symptoms. (Smoke, excessive power loss, ect.). I'll pull the banjo bolt on the valve tonight and solidly confirm.

DRB readings on a road test with and without external pressure box were lower than expected as well; just higher than 20,000 per DRB. Dual pumps and these comparatively tame injectors should easily see more than that, IMO.

Perhaps the error is in the pressure measurement? I would have thought a rail sensor failure would have presented a DTC. If the rail sensor can fail and read lower than actual, that could be a possible explanation as the ecm commands would be confirmed with a lower than actual reading; there-by increasing actual pressure to the rail. I don't know if that is even possible.

I am inclined to believe the injectors are not to blame at this point, but Glenn has graciously offered to prove this in the near future by swapping them with new one's if necessary. (Insert testiment to exceptional customer service here. :) ) There is no symptoms present to indicate a cracked tip, no increase in oil level, no excessive smoke. The engine has not seen excessive temperatures at all. Even starting from a bogged roll on with 1150 pyro reading, once the Engineered Diesel built turbos light the heat show is over by 1450 to north of triple digit speeds. I am quite certain there is no damage to any bottom end component due to heat, removal of oil cap produces no smoke or excessive pressure leading creed to this.

Again, to those of you who were kind enough to endure an ass puckering for this, I sincerely thank you. To those of you who are scarred for life, should I have the pleasure of meeting you at an event, I would be happy to offer beer therapy. :Cheer:

Any ideas?
Click to expand...


1. cap the rail.
2. swap rail pressure sensor with known good one.
if that doesn't eliminate the problems,
3. verifiy that the ends of the connector tubes (where they meet the body of the injector) are not deformed.
4. upon reinstallation, insure that the connector tubes are torqued properly. Overtorquing the connector tubes will deform them, as will torquing them before the injector is properly seated in the bore. Undertorquing them can bleed off rail pressure.

-jp
 
had similar probelm was told to over tq inject connector tubes by a few clicks and noise left.also could be dual pump harness/box going bad...happens
 
Rail Pressure bypass valve crapped the bed. :doh:

Who would have thought it would run as good as it did with a rail bleeding pressure like a stuck pig? Still no codes. No long cranks. Smarty only has the same boost it always did.

I discovered this only after increasing connector tube torque a couple clicks to 40 ft lbs.

I reasoned it impossible as the truck has seen minimal pressure. Gross failure in reasoning on my part to not account for the one day I tried backing down the duration while keeping a little pressure on hand. That's likely when this whole debacle started.

Modded rail valve will be heading my way. (Too skeered to straight up cap.LOL)
 
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Amish Elegance said:
Modded rail valve will be heading my way. (Too skeered to straight up cap.LOL)
Click to expand...


You'll unplug the FCA while it's running on a dual CP3 system, but are too skeered to run a cap? Now that's just not right!!! :hehe:
 
Only for a second and only on one pump. LOL It's not like I smashed the fuse to the dual pump controller with a hammer then drove to Poughkeepsie singing Hanson's MMMBop. :ylsuper:


*** hums Ebony and Ivory ***
Amish E and irony, together in perfect harmony. :doh::hehe:
 
12valve said:
did you find the noise?

What fixed it?
Click to expand...

Not sure yet. General consensus is that this should cure it. I'm dying to find out.

I got the valve overnighted to me from Mumau diesel yesterday. (Excellent service, BTW.) Between baby class last night and the MIL's arrival in town yesterday I've been too busy to take the 5 min to swap it out. I'm more frustrated than a harelip trying to get a waitress to bring him Worcestershire sauce. :hehe: ("An I gep sum wee-hee-hee sauce? Wee-hee-hee SAUCE! WEE-HEE-HEE SAUCE, DAMMIT!")

Gonna try and swap it out at lunch today. I'll let you know.

BBRam said:
You wouldn't happen to have a vid would ya. :hehe:
Click to expand...

Narrator: Not content to illustrate Amish's ignorance or dyslexia by asking third gen people to check their AFC, BBram further belittles Amish by excerpting statements out of context. lol

Sadly, the only video I have is the one I laughed at in my head when I typed it. :( Sorry to disappoint.
 
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