Let's talk CAMS

RacinDuallie

RacinDuallie

Black Sheep Racing
Joined
Apr 24, 2006
Messages
17,369
Let's have a discussion on the aftermarket selection of camshafts.:poke:

Which version have gone with and report the changes in operation, spool-up, exhaust temp reduction, rpm capabilities, and overall impression after the swap......

I will be going with a custom grind for the racer, but will opt to go with a shelf aftermarket grind with my duallie.

I am leaning towards the F1 Helix 2 cam. . . or possibly the Helix 3 cam....:evil
 
i hear the F1 cam and springs, are working well......i have never tried one but i know of a few that do run them, a little port work helps also,

Faster spool, lower EGT's more HP and TQ. on the track and on the dyno, works well with NOS and or water meth. due to the extra fuel and air.

Scott
 
I've liked the 3 F1 cams that I've had/have. I also liked the Diesel Dynamics cam for my 24v, but it was EXPENSIVE.

My F1 H2 in my 12v works well and only required 60lb springs. Spool with teh GT42 = good and the powerband is silly wide.

The DD 24v cam spooled well. It ran ~100F less EGT and ~8psi less boost than a truck with the same twins/injectors/box setup and a Piers stage 3 cam. It also made +12hp over the other truck.

THe 2004.5 with a F1 H2 dropped EGT up to 300F across the board and picked up a full 2 MPG highway. He deployed to Iraq a week later and didn't get to check around-town milage. The third F1 H2 cam is run by a member here on this site known as jw3. I believe it's safe to say he loves his H2. The H3 is typically reserved for 1500-5000+ rpm applications and is not considered streetable.

Please note that I'm a biased customer, I really like F1 stuff. :)

bnraond.
 
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Smokem said:
Brad Ponci had a large cam from Piers and was disappointed with the low end performance, he switched to a smaller cam and was much happier with it. He has a twin turboed 12v 600+hp. But if it is a purpose built motor, I agree, go big you won't regret it.
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you are so very correct. I was told that garmen tried a street cam regrind and lost 150hp on the dyno ,and now they run stockers (told by a close source of his) had something to do with valve overlap and loosing cylinder press.

I think it is hard to find a street cam , your rpm is all over the place ,where as my puller is at 5000rpm all the time so I go BIG. but for the street i don't feel you need one .
your engine is just a big air pump so throw some air and fuel at it and save your money, just my thoughts
 
Smokem said:
Are you looking to daily drive this camshaft with twins? If so I would recommend against it and opt for a smaller profile, often the bottom end performance is sacrificed for top end performance.
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No daily driver .

I need it for my race engine: twin turbo and lot´s of fuel

RPM range of the Helix 2 is from idle to 4000 RPM

RPM range of the Helix 3 is 1500 to 5000 RPM.


Is H3 cam still usable with 2000 rpm stall converter or do I need higher?

Can automatic tranny handle 5000 rpm or is H3 made for manual tranny?
 
Smokem said:
Get a set of Mahle 155* pistons and shave them 0.005-0.006" for valve clearance. Then purchase the cam of your choice. This will allow you to advance the timing with a set of 145* injectors up to the 40* advance range and still keep the spray pattern in the bowl. I think the 1800-2000RPM range for a stall convertor would be efficient as long as the transmission is built to handle the power.
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I allready have a set genuine Cummins marine 370 pistons, they have to be with 155* bowl (lower compression than stock) versus stock 145*.

:thankyou2: for your advice, i will try H3 :woohoo:
 
The cam I ground for project X , has very short seat timing, .005 , but by .200 is really healthy. Its responds from idle to redline, and will really thump a bigger charger. There are no trade off's in putting a cam in a diesel , like there are in a gas motor The secret is in not getting the seat timing to big , and bleeding off the much needed cylinder pressure.
The cams I use are done with a CNC grinding process, which is much more versatile in designing the shape of the lobe, and therefore the acceleration ramps, this giving you a short tight ramp.
I have close to 50 cams out in trucks now, and this cam made 862 hp 1650 tq in project X. Bret’s Williams truck at Industrial Injection uses this same to cam to make 812 with a stock head

One other note, the cam in the my old ride , when compared to one of the top pulling high RPM cams, from one of the biggest pulling engine builders is 30 degrees shorter at .005 or seat timing , by .050 or advertised duration its 15 degrees shorter. Now when you get to .200 lift, or where the air is moving the duration is 2 degrees shorter.
This cam moves some air , but doesn’t bleed off cylinder pressure .
 
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to COMP461

Have few questions:
Is your cam made of old cores or new blank?
Cam gear is bolted or press fit?
Price?
Is cam bearings needed?
Tappets , stock or special?
 
smokinrod said:
had a small cam:eek:wned: now i ordered my roller cam BIG roller cam:rockwoot:
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Give us more info about your new cam? :poke:
 
AsTroSS said:
Any F1 Helix 3 users here?


Is H3 cam still usable with 2000 rpm stall converter or do I need higher?/QUOTE]

I have run the H3 cam and it worked awesome. The importance on picking a cam is to get the right cam for the application.... As mentioned a big puller cam is not really what you want for the street.

I ran the H3 in a 2002 CTD that made over 830 RWHP with a stock VP44. The cam really woke up the upper end of the engines rpm range. I was still gaining HP @ 3800 RPM where the OEM cam dropped off power starting around 3350. The H3 is very streetable but the H2 is a better street cam. With the H2 you gain more bottum end and only loose slightly on the top.

Doug Smith
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Please excplain.

My current setup :HX35 -16 with 60mm impeller and loose converter(2500 rpm stall), it will start moving 1800-1900 rpm.

For me the 800 to 1800 rpm are useless, only in highway converter locked i can drive 1600/1700 rpm.

Are my setup totally wrong? converter/turbo

How I can use H2 cam power from idle speed ?

:confused:
 
Like I understand now :

for H2 is needed at least 1800-1900 stall converter,

for H3 is needed 2200-2500 stall converter (like stock).


Here is two setup for different application:


H2+ 1800 rpm converter + small twins (Hx35+HT3B) = nice 600 hp daily driver

H3+ 2300 converter+ big twins (S4P+ big brother) = 800 hp racing monster


Is it correct or am I wrong?
 
Every camshaft I do is custom tailored to the engine program it is used in, that is the right way to do cams. If you intened to be in stock RPM ranges the cummins cam is pretty good, and I would say a good head and valve job would be better than a cam in most instances. A lot of cams out there hurt bottom end power to pick up top end power, some increase spool/ low rpm power, but hurt peak power. A few mildly help both bottom and top end power, but is it really worth the time trouble and money to gain an across the board 20-50hp when maybe a diffrent turbo could have done the same thing with more power for less $$$???
 
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