low end fueling problems!!!

weekend hooker

weekend hooker

Tyler G.
Joined
Dec 5, 2010
Messages
90
Ok fella's, I had another post about a 63/68 not spooling. I have since tried all kinds of different things, with no result. Looking for some help/info here. I bought a phatshaft 62 and still have the same problem! First off, the motor was just freshened, 180hp pump benched with 4k gsk, 181 dv's, and 5x.12's. The truck is lazy and smokes like a freight train, with the afc housing all the way back, a spring from Ron A (that I found in one of his post) starts moving at 7 psi and full rack at 45psi, also have tried tst medium and stock spring. Preboost is currently just touching the foot any more and it will cloud out a neighborhood. It is lazy but its not, if that makes since? It build boost right away with a thick haze just easing into it then clears up at 15 psi of boost. Once you get it to cruising at 65mph just resting your foot on the throttle it has a constant smoke trail. I had the injectors pop tested and they all popped at 290ish. I am at a loss, I don't want to name drop on the injectors due to not knowing if that is the problem. Also I read how everyone says the 4k's are a good mod, but it seems on my truck to have killed the bottom end? I have loosened them up and tightened them up with no difference. I am tired of driving/spending money on the "smoke machine". If anybody has any thoughts or you live close and want to see it first hand, feel free to post! :nail:
 
Forgot to add timing has been at 12*,16* 18* and now 20*. On all my 215 pumps if you had it in 2nd gear and just say dumped the clutch it would chug and catch itself, this thing you have to rev it up and slide the clutch out to take off in 2nd, otherwise it will just fall on its face. Thanks in advance for any help you guys may have.
 
Mines pretty close to that. Makes a lot of smoke off the line if Im not real careful with the AFC settings. Its partly to do with TC stall speed and where in the rpm range the engine is efficient.
370's or another injector with a wider spray (not sure if sac versus vco makes a difference with fuel drip), along with low timing seemed to help too. Those 7x.010 nozzles were good on pre-boost smoke but bad on top end fueling like you might expect.
Do you have a vacuum gauge between the turbo and air filter? Youd be surprised how much lag you get even from a outerwears cover on a filter pod. Mine was 25" h2o on the dodge filter minder thing. shows 15 inches now and spools pretty good.
 
Benched 180 pumps are finicky when it comes to idle/stall stability, your best bet is to live with the idle set up closer to 1000 rpm.

If the head has had an extreme port and polish job, it's possible that you're not seeing stock-like swirl which will contribute to the smoke.

Was the motor decompressed at all via oversized gasket or cut pistons?

Are you running standard thickness washers on the injectors or the 0.020" thin ones?
 
Constant stream of smoke? I only had that with SAC injectors, HUGE injectors, or injectors with a lot of pintle mods.

Also, is your throttle sluggish feeling in neutral when you blip the throttle? Or is the engine pretty responsive? After testing so many injectors I got a feel for what injector made pretty good off idle torque and what didn't. Some 5x.011's with the thick washers made pretty good torque and clattered a lot (advanced timing, small holes), engine was responsive and fun to drive even with a 75mm single.

For governor springs I like to set my governor springs up so very little throttle input will drive the truck(tight). Less throttle input = less rack travel = less smoke on acceleration.

I agree with will, figure out some of those thins so we can help you get this sorted out. A 62mm turbo should be a fast spooling torquey setup.

One last thing, find out if the AFC eccentric adjustment at the front of the housing right behind #6 injector line has been messed with. That can totally void what AFC tuning you do if it's adjusted wrong. IIRC towards the engine lifts the foot, and towards the fender lowers it.
 
Ok to answer some of the questions, the head just had the ex. matched to the gaskets along with the manifold, It has sac 5x12s with .020 washers, as far as the afc eccentric it is set on the lowest position, and the gsk are currently at .050 stud protrusion minus 2 clicks. Hope this helps and I appreciate the info guys!
 
180 pumps aren't that hard to setup. Have you checked your gov arm height? Did you lower your compression by either pistons or cutting them, head gasket? Have you tried to raise your timing to 25-28 degrees to see if your lazy smoke is better. Kind of sound like there is no cylinder pressure to push the charger hard enough at lighter throttle. If the smoke comes out of the pipe and falls its low velocity. Take time to check it out before you go buying other stuff. Just something to check out.
 
Have you checked for any boost leaks. Or pressure tested your intake system. From the turbo side to the intake horn.
 
I have no leaks at 30psi, my set up looked like it was about to explode! What gets me is the truck ran the same before the overhaul! Smokey and flat on the bottom, I have replaced everything with new except the return line and the cam. The cam lobes all looked good no scuffs or rounded lobes. That's what makes me think I am missing something simple....Has anyone ever experienced a blocked/partially blocked return? My fuel solenoid seems to be lifting all the way up? I am so frustrated, I don't know what else to check/change next. The truck is just flat lazy it will cruise down the road @900*-1100* but when you go wot it only goes to 1250*. Then whether the pump is at 200cc or 400cc it reacts the same, no more or less smoke. Nor is it more or less responsive. And why at idle in neutral when I rev the motor from 750ish to 1000 rpm it will suck fuel psi gauge down 10 pounds? Then when I go wot it will suck it down another 10 pounds.
 
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Ok so if the Ip dosent have enough fuell at WOT I'm wondering if your not dribbling from inj's instead of spraying a nice pattern .... I would try a Electric pump... something that will keep up with demand.... see if that dosent clear it up ...... IP might be just starving for flow and not putting out enought PSI to INJ's ..... possibly .....
 
Did you get the head ported at all? Changing the intake will change the swirl which is real important at the low RPMs.
If I do a compression test my stock head and pistons give 360psi.
Setting the timing low will help with low end smoke at the cost of top end power / higher EGT.
Did you pop test the injectors? If theyve been run awhile maybe let Weston have a look at em?

If you are dropping the fuel pressure like that, Id get a sight glass installed right before the IP. you can get those off mcmaster-carr. Real useful for tracking down air leaks.
I run 1/2" trident marine fuel hose from tank to pump with a racor 490r under the bed. Also gutted the fuel pickup and replaced the top bung with one from vulcan performance. Less likely to develop leaks with all that. Unless youre like me and slice it open with a cutoff wheel while replacing floor pans.
 
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Just curious..... do you have a 3 piece manifold?

I bought a used ATS from a friend... it sat around for about a year while I finished building my motor.... get it on the truck and the back section leaks BADLY. My benched 215 pump, stock sticks, stock HX35/14Wg'd will only make 30PSI wide open and falls to 28 when the gate opens. I'm going to be swapping it out for a stocker today because its all I have laying around. Also my gasket between the head and intake plate pushed out in the front, I'm going to fix that with some silicone also.

Just some ideas...may help may not
 
Got Smoke? said:
Just curious..... do you have a 3 piece manifold?

I bought a used ATS from a friend... it sat around for about a year while I finished building my motor.... get it on the truck and the back section leaks BADLY. My benched 215 pump, stock sticks, stock HX35/14Wg'd will only make 30PSI wide open and falls to 28 when the gate opens. I'm going to be swapping it out for a stocker today because its all I have laying around. Also my gasket between the head and intake plate pushed out in the front, I'm going to fix that with some silicone also.

Just some ideas...may help may not
Click to expand...

Don't bother with silicone it will just blow out ...... get a metal crush type gasket ...... like a factory one .... my 215 stock stock cks and hx35w makes well over 40 psi .....
 
4x4manonbroke said:
Don't bother with silicone it will just blow out ...... get a metal crush type gasket ...... like a factory one .... my 215 stock stock cks and hx35w makes well over 40 psi .....
Click to expand...

I'm going to try the super Ford gray stuff because I have some laying around and I have the time to fool with it tomorrow.

If it blows out it blows out....but that ford gray stuff is some wicked tough stuff!


Sent from the command position of my dinosaur.
 
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