New Smarty TNT VS stand alone Stock injectors.

Joesixpack

Joesixpack

Pull'n it.
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Messages
4,118
DynoSmartyvsstandalone.jpg


Been doing some fooling around with stock injectors and comparing the new Smarty TNT+pressure to the NIRA stand alone I've been running.

120 HP and 171 ft/lbs more on top. Guess which is which.....
 
Given the fuel drop off earlier...I'd say NIRA was on top.
 
Thats very impressive that you're getting that kinda HP out of stock nozzles!!


Do you think that folks with EFI could duplicate this or is there somethink that the Nira can do better / more to achieve this?


Also, this makes me think more about the "Less is More" at times theory.
I had 200+ hp nozzles... With more advance tuning, I could have made the same hp with even less smoke and better mpg's / drivability..
 
Efi should be right in there. Frankly the little I've fooled with Efi its a lot harder initially to see what else might be modifying a critical table...(Once you were comfortable with it should be fine).

Efi has most all the tables but is still a little rough in comparison.

Pressure for example I have down just deadly, its so responsive now that the pressure line ramps inside the exact same line as the fuel requested. Even with two 85% over pumps that should be just way to much pump for stock injectors are easy to control.

It comes down to a table that you can call a feed forward term. So for a given pressure and duration you net a FCA duty cycle. The closer you have this term through experimentation the easier it is to track and the ecm only has to make small changes though closed loop control.

Also the instant I lift the throttle pressure is following that same line down.

Box tuner with large pumps and ramp up to pressure the overshoot at the end of a pull was always pretty sickening.


Not sure just what it is, but the pulls I made with the smarty, sounds like a **** load of timing and through the pull your thinking god can't wait till this is done........... as you go up in rpms its like a laboring and the power drop off along with it. Could be the pilot shot getting out of hand with pressure or the pilot bringing in to much timing and using up injection window.

Pulls with the stand alone cal just sound plain awesome, like it just wants more and more. (Single event)


More instrumentation showed up.....

DSCF3683.jpg
 
My guess is long duration is making the funny sounds in the upper RPM window for hte Smarty. Wild stab in the dark though.

Can you reduce max duration when increasing RPM with the NIRA without commanding less fuel delivery? Kinda a whimsical question, but is there a limit table for duration in the NIRA?
 
Nira can limit duration by simple crankshaft degrees, say you want the window 60 degrees, no matter whats in the pulse width table injection is done at the end of the window.

If you use this method as RPM goes up, naturally the injection time gets less and less so in reality any time you reduce duration with the same max pressure you have less fuel mass.

Didn't actually measure what the TNT is putting out on 9 but pretty sure I pushed it out even longer than it does.
 
I've logged TNT-R spike to 3500uS, but quickly pull back to 25-2700uS. Once over 2800rpms it was capped at 2500uS, and as rpm increased commanded mm3 dropped and pulse followed.

I will add this though, pilot pulse, main pulse and post pulse...at times was close to 4000uS total with a total timing of 80*

In comparison to my current EFI Live tune...I'm running 3100uS total pulse over 2600rpm, and total timing of 25*.

900uS less total pulse time and 55* less total timing....and I've made more hp than my best with TNT-R with same mods.
 
Last edited:
2007 5.9 said:
I've logged TNT-R spike to 3500uS, but quickly pull back to 25-2700uS. Once over 2800rpms it was capped at 2500uS, and as rpm increased commanded mm3 dropped and pulse followed.

I will add this though, pilot pulse, main pulse and post pulse...at times was close to 4000uS total with a total timing of 80*

In comparison to my current EFI Live tune...I'm running 3100uS total pulse over 2600rpm, and total timing of 25*.

900uS less total pulse time and 55* less total timing....and I've made more hp than my best with TNT-R with same mods.
Click to expand...
In watching the timing shown in EFILive, I don't think it's accurate from all the logging I've done.
 
Joesixpack said:
Efi should be right in there. Frankly the little I've fooled with Efi its a lot harder initially to see what else might be modifying a critical table...(Once you were comfortable with it should be fine).

Efi has most all the tables but is still a little rough in comparison.

Pressure for example I have down just deadly, its so responsive now that the pressure line ramps inside the exact same line as the fuel requested. Even with two 85% over pumps that should be just way to much pump for stock injectors are easy to control.

It comes down to a table that you can call a feed forward term. So for a given pressure and duration you net a FCA duty cycle. The closer you have this term through experimentation the easier it is to track and the ecm only has to make small changes though closed loop control.

Also the instant I lift the throttle pressure is following that same line down.

Box tuner with large pumps and ramp up to pressure the overshoot at the end of a pull was always pretty sickening.


Not sure just what it is, but the pulls I made with the smarty, sounds like a **** load of timing and through the pull your thinking god can't wait till this is done........... as you go up in rpms its like a laboring and the power drop off along with it. Could be the pilot shot getting out of hand with pressure or the pilot bringing in to much timing and using up injection window.

Pulls with the stand alone cal just sound plain awesome, like it just wants more and more. (Single event)


More instrumentation showed up.....

DSCF3683.jpg
Click to expand...

What tables are you suggesting be added?

Cheers
Cindy
 
joefarmer said:
In watching the timing shown in EFILive, I don't think it's accurate from all the logging I've done.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing you've been logging with an older release...there was a time when EFI had logging data for main timing that was showing main timing to be 20* higher than actual.

That was fixed in a later release to show the accurate and correct main timing..

I suspect youve been looking at logs with the wrong info.
 
EFI Support said:
Can you please provide more information

Cheers
Cindy
Click to expand...

I think Les may have figured it out. See below.

2007 5.9 said:
I'm guessing you've been logging with an older release...there was a time when EFI had logging data for main timing that was showing main timing to be 20* higher than actual.

That was fixed in a later release to show the accurate and correct main timing..

I suspect youve been looking at logs with the wrong info.
Click to expand...

That may very well be it. I've looked at the initial and second releases. What release was the main injection timing fixed? What release was current on December 6th of 2011?
 
Main injection was fixed in the most recent one. Forgive me if I am wrong, but I'm thinking it was the December 6th release.
 
Timing offset didn't make it into the public arena until the December 22 Release Candidate software.

There has been a further update since that release, Jan 6.

Cheers
Cindy
 
joefarmer said:
I think Les may have figured it out. See below.



That may very well be it. I've looked at the initial and second releases. What release was the main injection timing fixed? What release was current on December 6th of 2011?
Click to expand...

Cindy beat me to it.
 
EFI Support said:
Timing offset didn't make it into the public arena until the December 22 Release Candidate software.

There has been a further update since that release, Jan 6.

Cheers
Cindy
Click to expand...

Yes forgive me, its been a long day. Thanks for clearing that up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top