Riddle me something.
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dieselfan12
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Timbeaux38 said:
Both engines are ultimately fuel limited when trying to make a lot of power.
inline6power
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what are you talking about? nasty girl, 1000hp on fuel only. pdi, 1000hp on fuel only. Browns diesel, 1289 with spray, loyde mills 1289 with spray. how can you say both engines are limited by fuel when trying to make a lot of power? no kidding they are limited in stock form thats why you change them with aftermarket parts and programmers and so on.dieselfan12 said:
SmokeShow
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I believe that most folks with max-effort engine builds have upgraded/oversized injectors of some sort. The majority of folks don't upgrade them in the DMax because the stockers can be used and still make very high HP. Point in case, McRat. it's pretty well known that his truck does what it does with stock LLY injectors.
More and more engine builds are doing injectors though so they can further reduce pulse width (fuel shot) and timing in their tuning and keep the high cylinder pressures closer to TDC instead of having it (CP) build up so soon in the cycle due to extreme timing needed to get all the commanded fuel injected....
That's my theory anyways.
More and more engine builds are doing injectors though so they can further reduce pulse width (fuel shot) and timing in their tuning and keep the high cylinder pressures closer to TDC instead of having it (CP) build up so soon in the cycle due to extreme timing needed to get all the commanded fuel injected....
That's my theory anyways.
dieselfan12
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inline6power said:
Right, in stock form, both engines are ultimately fuel limited. Why there isn’t much press on changing out the injectors on a Dmax, I don’t know.
inline6power
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i got ya, sorry for the missunderstanding lol. the dmaxes are somewhat limited, i know they have and can make 700hp plus on stock injectors. no way we can do that in our dodges but they can for some reasondieselfan12 said:
Timbeaux
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I would think that the DMax could benefit greatly from upgraded nozzles, but I also hear they are quite a PITA to swap out as well...... I'm assuming that and the whole "upgraded bottom end" would be some of the reasons for the lack of popularity???
Big Angry
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Timbeaux38 said:
The LB7's were a PITA due to the heads needed to be taken off, however my LLY (and I believe all subsequent generations) have injectors that can be accessed without head removal. Part of the problem (IMO) is that unlike Dodge, GM chose to ignore Bosch's recommendation of a lift pump/pusher pump at the tank and let the CP3 suck fuel through the filter from the engine, and with a big tune you can starve the rails for fuel. And for some reason, due to the success Pat has had with stock injectors, many feel that it's money best spent elsewhere, like bigger turbos and another CP3 that usually will result in a very pricey purchase of rods (at the very least) and usually pistons. I asked a vendor about the benefits of his upgraded injectors and he told me he doesn't recommend them unless it's a full on build, and since my little money tree isn't bearing that kind of fruit yet, I kind of put them on the back burner.
I'm sure someone can chime in with more technical answer, but all the reading I have tried doing always points back to Pat's success with stock injectors and the warning "don't waste your money".
C.A.P
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Well lets start out with the Lb7, as Angry stated,they Lb7 can make good power with stock injectors. They are not the main limiting issue with the Duramax. Getting fuel to them is! bigger sticks will give the tuner a chance to lighten up the pulse with and the duration as well as the timing and still get plenty of fuel to the cylinder.However; In the wrong hands that can be a dangerous issue. With a pump and a second cp3 and big turbo, you are able to get 700 hp with stockers pretty easy. That being said you can get a bit more but its a danger area. The biggest reason is COST ! The Duramax injector tips run any where from $1000 to $2000 on up. Just the tips. Sad part is its not the tips that are that bad. Its the bodies, It was a poor design , both GM and Bosch knew it. GM said go with it. Lastly, its a real PITA to change them out on a Lb7.
Now the LLY and the Lbz are a different story. The cost is the same on the tips. But they are way easier to install. They can be reached from top side of the head. Without removing the top head cover.
Its a matter of cost + time = performance deal !
10's can be made with stock sticks in a light truck.
Now the LLY and the Lbz are a different story. The cost is the same on the tips. But they are way easier to install. They can be reached from top side of the head. Without removing the top head cover.
Its a matter of cost + time = performance deal !
10's can be made with stock sticks in a light truck.
JOHNBOY
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In totally agree with what CAP said. But to add to that the fact that we have EFI Live.
Bigger sticks are a tuning aid just like EFI. All generations of Dmax are capable of making 500rwph with just tuning, lift pump, and trans. True 500rwhp is plenty for most. Adding a turbo can take this other wise stock combo in to the 600s but your rods will haten ya. To take the Dmax to that level and higher and keep it together takes a lot thing as many of the Dmax hard parts become suspect at basically the same level. Which is a testament to the original design criteria.
I think you will see more Dmax injectors coming to the for front as power out goes up.
Another thing is that some of the early injectors for the Dmax where pretty crude. Not a lot was known about modded injectors for HPCR. So they kind of got a bad rap. There is very little data out there to show what actually works. Their was a lot of hype about 10 hole injectors but in the end they seem to have been a flop.
A lot of people say there stuff works but not many can prove
Bigger sticks are a tuning aid just like EFI. All generations of Dmax are capable of making 500rwph with just tuning, lift pump, and trans. True 500rwhp is plenty for most. Adding a turbo can take this other wise stock combo in to the 600s but your rods will haten ya. To take the Dmax to that level and higher and keep it together takes a lot thing as many of the Dmax hard parts become suspect at basically the same level. Which is a testament to the original design criteria.
I think you will see more Dmax injectors coming to the for front as power out goes up.
Another thing is that some of the early injectors for the Dmax where pretty crude. Not a lot was known about modded injectors for HPCR. So they kind of got a bad rap. There is very little data out there to show what actually works. Their was a lot of hype about 10 hole injectors but in the end they seem to have been a flop.
A lot of people say there stuff works but not many can prove
dieselfan12
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C.A.P said:
The stock fuel pump is good to over 1000hp. No need to run two.
dieselfan12
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JOHNBOY said:
The first post refers to injectors; the second refers to the fuel pump. The stock fuel pump can support over 1000hp on fuel only. I’m not talking about using nitrous. You don’t need two fuel pumps. If you are not going to read the thread and just post to be a dick, go somewhere else.
dieselfan12
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JOHNBOY said:
If you are only making 600+hp at the wheels and running out of fuel pump then you either have a BSFC of a jet engine or you haven't fixed the other limitations of the fuel system.