roller motor or flat tappet?

The reason I ask is I am in the same boat. I am building a new motor and not sure what way to go. Like I said before the cam and push rods are about the same cost. The roller lifts or billet lifts are about the same unless i am missing something else. Anyone run a cast roller cam?
 
ok plans might change might be going open drive line 3.0 or small twins
 
The added cost usually is in the machining of the extra cam bushings and the fact that the cams are usually 2-3 time flat tappet cams.
 
I would go roller if you can swing the added $$ Its all about reducing friction

A cam's lobes are designed to do only one thing and that is push the tappet up to open the valve and let it follow the lobe back down to close the valve and try to keep it from bouncing off the seat. Less friction makes more power and will increase longevity on parts a little more. Roller lobes are designed to open the valves with more more area under the curve. As the valve approaches max lift a roller tappet can hold it open longer than a flat tappet. But flat tappet cams might be more capable in the low end power to due to their more aggresive initial opening rates, but their advantage quickly goes away as frictional losses take over vs. roller tappets and the top end power increases as the roller tappets far outweigh the marginal low end advantage.
 
I would go roller if you can swing the added $$ Its all about reducing friction

A cam's lobes are designed to do only one thing and that is push the tappet up to open the valve and let it follow the lobe back down to close the valve and try to keep it from bouncing off the seat. Less friction makes more power and will increase longevity on parts a little more. Roller lobes are designed to open the valves with more more area under the curve. As the valve approaches max lift a roller tappet can hold it open longer than a flat tappet. But flat tappet cams might be more capable in the low end power to due to their more aggresive initial opening rates, but their advantage quickly goes away as frictional losses take over vs. roller tappets and the top end power increases as the roller tappets far outweigh the marginal low end advantage.

The savings in frictional losses are minimal, Taylor. As far as longevity is concerned, I have seen flat tappets go over 1,000,000 miles without issue. I think the added longevity argument is not valid. In fact with our engines designed for flat tappets adding much higher mass and pressure will actually speed up wear. You are forgetting about the additional weight of the roller assemblies. This requires more spring pressure, no way around it if you want to control the valves. This additional mass and pressure works overtime on rocker assembly wear. Rollers are much more desirable when the engine in question is turning 7,000-15,000 rpm. There are benefits for cummins engines but they are going to be for the puller on the edge. With our heads flowing so little, the benefits that roller cams bring to the table are almost entirely nullified by the the port designs. Unless you are filling the water jackets and getting a port shape that will take full advantage of high lift roller profiles. Your added hp per dollar is minimal.


Something to think about
custom flat tappet cam $699
custom faced mushroom tappets $96 dollars

Roller cam $1300-$1800
aluminum side cover clearanced for roller tappets $325
roller tappets $649
related hardware $125
tappet bore bushings $149
Machine work for lifter bores $600 -750
Machine work for bushings in block $400-600

Your final cost is $795 vs. a $4000 average. That is an expensive minor friction reduction, unless you have a REALLY nice head.

Final answer, rollers become more valuable as RPM's eclipse 7000 (like in gassers) or you have a head that actually flows air at high lift (like in gassers).

silver 03 we are working on a roller that uses our upgraded cast billet and roller tappets.

Zach
 
You are most certainly correct, I haven't seen a Roller out there with a 1,000,000 miles and they have not had the chance yet either, the frictional losses may be minimal but they are still there, and though they would wear faster on a DD a roller would be right at home on a Puller or Drag racer, as we are always trying to keep friction at a minimum, same reason most car manufacturers have gone to roller style engines, even though roller parts are more expensive and we know how stingy the OEM world is yet they have steered away from flat tappets years ago except in a few industrys (ours being one of them). Roller parts will continue to be expensive for now, and it's hard to swing that sort of dough on what you call minimal. In the future with new aftermarket cummins heads that will be surfacing and that will allow for the benefits of a roller motor and big cam to show positive gains.
 
Something to think about
custom flat tappet cam $699
custom faced mushroom tappets $96 dollars

Roller cam $1300-$1800
aluminum side cover clearanced for roller tappets $325
roller tappets $649
related hardware $125
tappet bore bushings $149
Machine work for lifter bores $600 -750
Machine work for bushings in block $400-600

Your final cost is $795 vs. a $4000 average. That is an expensive minor friction reduction, unless you have a REALLY nice head.

Final answer, rollers become more valuable as RPM's eclipse 7000 (like in gassers) or you have a head that actually flows air at high lift (like in gassers).

silver 03 we are working on a roller that uses our upgraded cast billet and roller tappets.

Zach

Shouldn't you run cam bushings in the block either way?
 
If you talk to the big boys they will tell that they have seen roller setups last longer because the seat pressure needed to keep from floating the valves @ high rpm and high boost pressures with maximum lift will ruin a billet cam in a few seasons, due to the extreme stresses put on cam from the flat tappets.

And as far as flat tappets going over a million miles yes they will... but we are talking "built" competition motors not "Daily Drivers" jmho

My motor is at the machine shop now and will be running roller everything...

Jake
 
On cams that have ample wide lobes, the main place I have seen them fail with high spring pressure is on the journals. Even if we make the lobes wider there is only so much surface area that the cam has to ride on the block. If you are running high spring pressures. over 180# on the seat and over #410 over the nose then you should have either bushings or roller bearings installed into the block. This is compounded as duration increases as well. If you have a lobe staying open for an additional 30 degrees of crankshaft rotationX 12 lobes with higher spring pressure, this is where you will start to see journal wear. If you have the money and a well ported head roller is not a bad way to go.


Zach
 
If you talk to the big boys they will tell that they have seen roller setups last longer because the seat pressure needed to keep from floating the valves @ high rpm and high boost pressures with maximum lift will ruin a billet cam in a few seasons, due to the extreme stresses put on cam from the flat tappets.

And as far as flat tappets going over a million miles yes they will... but we are talking "built" competition motors not "Daily Drivers" jmho

My motor is at the machine shop now and will be running roller everything...

Jake
With a ball bearing hx35 and a 3" hoodstack!LOL
 
If you talk to the big boys they will tell that they have seen roller setups last longer because the seat pressure needed to keep from floating the valves @ high rpm and high boost pressures with maximum lift will ruin a billet cam in a few seasons, due to the extreme stresses put on cam from the flat tappets.

And as far as flat tappets going over a million miles yes they will... but we are talking "built" competition motors not "Daily Drivers" jmho

My motor is at the machine shop now and will be running roller everything...

Jake

LOL after 1 season it is so last year LOL time to update anyhow :rockwoot:
 
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