Rules clarification

[RedPuller]

Ok, so there are some legitimate answers here to why one would need both. Runaway seems to be the main answer, I just don't see that as being why it was put into the rule book.......maybe it was, I don't know.

I guess I am just confused in the circumstances regarding, say if an engine lets go from just running down the track @ 5K RPMs and throws a rod out the side of the block as opposed to it letting go from an internal oil leak, running away and destroying itself that way, what's the difference? How is an air shut-off gonna stop that? If the engine is running away from an internal oil leak and your already @ 5K RPMs pulling down the track, is there going to be enough time at those RPMs before the engine blows-up to have an air gate stop it? IMO, :umno:

I am not trying to start any piss matches here at all, just want to justify running both fuel and air shut-offs, so please take it easy.

Joe

 

[Valair1]

They are talking about those rules here. i already got the fuel shut off, but will get a air soon.

 

[Ragged Edge]

Ok, so there are some legitimate answers here to why one would need both. Runaway seems to be the main answer, I just don't see that as being why it was put into the rule book.......maybe it was, I don't know.

I guess I am just confused in the circumstances regarding, say if an engine lets go from just running down the track @ 5K RPMs and throws a rod out the side of the block as opposed to it letting go from an internal oil leak, running away and destroying itself that way, what's the difference? How is an air shut-off gonna stop that? If the engine is running away from an internal oil leak and your already @ 5K RPMs pulling down the track, is there going to be enough time at those RPMs before the engine blows-up to have an air gate stop it? IMO, :umno:

I am not trying to start any piss matches here at all, just want to justify running both fuel and air shut-offs, so please take it easy.

Joe

I take it that you never had a plunger stick all you need is one time and you will have a air shut off! Wait to it happens and your in a shop and it happens

 

[Tcolesanti]

This thread is ridiculous, questioning a safety rule of all things. Those rules were put into effect long before you pulled Joe and yes they both have a purpose.

3-way dump cuts fuel to the inj. pump and hopefully kills the engine before it starts to suck oil.
air shut off cuts all air in the event the three way dump does not kill the engine.

You of all people should have both Joe, since you have a p-pump on your truck.

-Tom

 

[Bosshawg600]

Truthfully, I dont see fuel shut offs doing a whole lot. Ever shut off the lift pump on a truck? Takes about 2 minutes to finally die. Now at WOT, maybe a little less.

A properly set up air shut off kills a truck pretty darn fast! At TS this year a 3.0 truck had a rack stick and it started to run away. not sure if the driver of the sled operator pulled the kill, but at 5K Plus RPM...it was shut down quick!

 

[Beets]

I have personally had a fresh rebuilt engine run away. even though i shut the fuel off it still had a lot off fuel in the line, also believe it started sucking oil out off the crank case. in a panic cuz the engine was spinning about 4 grand on 2 cyl on a engine stand grappled the first object i could to block the turbo from getting air with and that was a service manual. finally died after running for about 20secs, which seemed like 10 min, it had nearly sucked the entire cover off the manual, so IMO it would be good to have both. And to make this worse it was a 8400 john deere engine i was rebuilding in college, for a grade.

 

[BigBadDodge]

Personally I would like to see some more guidance on the air guillotines themselves. I have seen lots of posts were folks are getting them for pennies on the dime to save a buck and meet the minum rule requirment and they don’t look like, at least to me, that they would be able to shut a truck down at lets say over 5K RPM’s. Most of these cheaper device people are installing are meant for carpenter shop dust collocation systems, or HVCA duct isolation. Has anybody tested these? It would be nice if they were tested and proven at higher rpm/boost levels not just at idle while getting tecked and rolling over the scale. I hate to say it, and you might flame me, but I would like to see some sort of SFI rated air guillotine valve at least in 3.0 and Mod class.


BBD

 

[RedPuller]

This thread is ridiculous, questioning a safety rule of all things. Those rules were put into effect long before you pulled Joe and yes they both have a purpose.

3-way dump cuts fuel to the inj. pump and hopefully kills the engine before it starts to suck oil.
air shut off cuts all air in the event the three way dump does not kill the engine.

You of all people should have both Joe, since you have a p-pump on your truck.

-Tom

So I guess all p-pumped trucks who pull should have them?

Sorry to have posted such a ridiculous thread Tom. I do have both safety items and it was just a question.

Joe

 

[SMOKIN93]

Yes they should, next time my truck is out it will have an air shutoff and a fuel shutoff

So I guess all p-pumped trucks who pull should have them?

Sorry to have posted such a ridiculous thread Tom. I do have both safety items and it was just a question.

Joe

 

[Tcolesanti]

Cole,

Remember Gustine last year? Super farm tractor came out of the hole, broke a driveline component, stuck the rack, and the engine started running away. He pulled the fuel cut and it did not do mcuh since it was already running on oil, he pulled the cheesy air cut he had and it took a good minute to get that thing shut down. All of this with crowds of people standing right next to the track within 15' of the tractor.

Bosshawg600,

Shutting off a lift pump and pulling a three way dump are two totally different things. If the 3 way dump is mounted close to the injection pump it will stop the motor fast. 3 way dumps are designed to return fuel back to the tank without ever allowing the fuel to go to the injection pump.

-Tom

 

[JerrodGlover]

Personally I would like to see some more guidance on the air guillotines themselves. I have seen lots of posts were folks are getting them for pennies on the dime to save a buck and meet the minum rule requirment and they don’t look like, at least to me, that they would be able to shut a truck down at lets say over 5K RPM’s. Most of these cheaper device people are installing are meant for carpenter shop dust collocation systems, or HVCA duct isolation. Has anybody tested these? It would be nice if they were tested and proven at higher rpm/boost levels not just at idle while getting tecked and rolling over the scale. I hate to say it, and you might flame me, but I would like to see some sort of SFI rated air guillotine valve at least in 3.0 and Mod class.


BBD

Scott I have one of those "Cheap devices" and had it pulled last year on us. It shut the truck down hard and fast from 4000 rpm and mid track. I agree there are better things out there but some of the manufactures need to step up and stop rapping us on the price of them.

 

[SMOKIN93]

Ok I do remember that, hit the fuel shut off and it almost died then it started winding up pretty high and it took a very long time for it to shut down, I didn't think it was gonna.
Jerrod is right, they are charging way to much for them nice ones.

Cole,

Remember Gustine last year? Super farm tractor came out of the hole, broke a driveline component, stuck the rack, and the engine started running away. He pulled the fuel cut and it did not do mcuh since it was already running on oil, he pulled the cheesy air cut he had and it took a good minute to get that thing shut down. All of this with crowds of people standing right next to the track within 15' of the tractor.

Bosshawg600,

Shutting off a lift pump and pulling a three way dump are two totally different things. If the 3 way dump is mounted close to the injection pump it will stop the motor fast. 3 way dumps are designed to return fuel back to the tank without ever allowing the fuel to go to the injection pump.

-Tom