s300 vs s400 flow and spool

Rollin Coal

Rollin Coal

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in the past years ive ran a few turbos, an s366/71/14. Good power and cooling, except that it surged low end like no other.

I switched to an s300g (67/65/14) when i was detuning my truck. spooled like a rocket 40psi almost instantly. truck fell on its face above 2700-2800 rpm. BD CLAIMS this turbo flows 61lb/min. but then turns around and rates it for 425hp (in my mind and most others a turbo that flows 61lb/min is rated for 610hp)

with both my s300's i had one issue, once the turbo started to light they came on so hard that 3rd and 4th gear would just end up in wheel spin, and being 2wd it was cool, but annoying if the opportunity to race something that was moderately fast came about.

so after reading, and using some past knowledge of s400's as primaries i decided to try one as a single, to hopefully have the turbo light a little slower. I bought an s464, with plans of having ED put an ETT 65mm wheel on it. the s464 is a non ett 63.5mm wheel, 74mm exhaust, and i bought a 0.90 T4 housing for it.

Slower was what I got. With the same fuel that pushed 60+ psi out of teh s366, i would barely get 20 psi out of the 400 in 2nd gear, and would be lucky to hit 40psi in 4th and 5th.

now i got rid of the drag comp and put an adrenaline on, which made a huge difference, but, i had the drag comp with the s300g, and the s366 so I'm trying to use it for a baseline.

do the ett wheels help with spool up that much? also the s464 is rated at 64lb/min where an s364 ETT is 75lb/min, I just feel like I'm missing something and wasting money here. Should i just sell the s400 and go to an ETT T4 s366?

Thanks
 
Are you sure that its an s300g that you had that was a 67mm wheel? I thought they were 57mm?
 
How large is the outside diameter or exducer of the S464 compressor wheel? I believe the 65mm ETT wheels flow a lot more because they have such a large exducer, around 100mm i think.

Obviously the S400 has a larger heavier shaft and larger heavier turbine wheel that makes it spool slower.
 
its 91.4mm

the huge s465 is a 100mm exducer (same as s471ett), tho i think only bullseye uses that wheel

what im considering using is a 65mm wheel that has a smaller exducer from ED, but if im not going to gain spool up from it, im going back to an s300
 
You have owned just about the smallest and almost the largest S300's out there and nothing in between that I can see. That turbine on the S400 even in a T4.90 is not always going to produce magic with that compressor (as your low boost numbers and performance losses indicate). You're not driving that turbine hard enough to spin that compressor to the boost level you want/need for your application. You could use less turbine wheel and smaller housing options to drive that compressor harder. The cost of these options might outweigh building you the charger you need for your goals. Chris
 
The Borg original 65 wheel does not have a 100mm exducer. I'm not sure which wheel of theirs you're talking about that does, but it doesnt sound familiar to me and we have never cut a cover for it.
 
bullseye "makes" a 65mm wheel with a 100mm exducer that flows 90lb/min. its the wheel that everyone who has an s464 or 465 THINKS they have.

i have never seen this wheel, picture or in person. the wheel Im looking to run is the BW wheel that you and I talked about, IIRC its a 65mm with a 92 or 94mm exducer, and i would think its going to fall into the 70lb/min area

the part that gets me are the claims of a s366 66.1mm with 91.4mm exducer flowing 80lb/min.

also, the s464 is seeing over 55psi now with the adrenaline compared to the drag comp, but like i said, trying to keep things comparative.
 
anyone else have any opinions?

will going to an s300 66/73/.88 t4 eliminate the surging issues I had with the 66/71/.80 t3?
 
i have a 66/73/.91 t4 and dont have any surging issues. Imo this turbo is a great dd with a 6spd and 4.10s. It drives like my hx35 yet it has some great top end. As long as i dont stick it to the floor and just roll into it its great.
 
I have also wondered why an s400 based 64mm charger would out flow a 64mm s300 charger? I had always thought it was due to a larger exducer, but are they not both around a 90-91mm?
 
shiftycapone said:
I have also wondered why an s400 based 64mm charger would out flow a 64mm s300 charger? I had always thought it was due to a larger exducer, but are they not both around a 90-91mm?
Click to expand...

They are both similar in diameter measurements but the S400 wheel is pretty tall. My S465 wheel is quite a bit taller than even my full size HT3b.
 
shiftycapone said:
I have also wondered why an s400 based 64mm charger would out flow a 64mm s300 charger? I had always thought it was due to a larger exducer, but are they not both around a 90-91mm?
Click to expand...

thats the issue, the s300's outflow the 400's....
 
kjpcummins said:
i have a 66/73/.91 t4 and dont have any surging issues. Imo this turbo is a great dd with a 6spd and 4.10s. It drives like my hx35 yet it has some great top end. As long as i dont stick it to the floor and just roll into it its great.
Click to expand...

Glad you like it Kyle we have had great results with this combo. Chris
 
Rollin Coal said:
thats the issue, the s300's outflow the 400's....
Click to expand...

The S400 with that small wheel in the popular 0.63 cover and the larger, laggy turbine section (by comparison to the smaller, faster S300 stuff) doesnt move the air by comparison especially with our relatively low engine volumes and rpm range (compared to its OEM intended application). Put a smaller compressor housing on it (tighter AR) and clamp down the turbine section so it comes on sooner and you would see the flow increase and some more usable range out of it. This combo in stock form does pretty well considering what it is. That being said there are better options than that charger. IMO
 
kjpcummins said:
i have a 66/73/.91 t4 and dont have any surging issues. Imo this turbo is a great dd with a 6spd and 4.10s. It drives like my hx35 yet it has some great top end. As long as i dont stick it to the floor and just roll into it its great.
Click to expand...

My 66/71/13 is freaking awesome on my tight auto. Even with 3.54's and 35" tires. Spools just as good as my 62/71/13ss.
 
carfichris said:
The S400 with that small wheel in the popular 0.63 cover and the larger, laggy turbine section (by comparison to the smaller, faster S300 stuff) doesnt move the air by comparison especially with our relatively low engine volumes and rpm range (compared to its OEM intended application). Put a smaller compressor housing on it (tighter AR) and clamp down the turbine section so it comes on sooner and you would see the flow increase and some more usable range out of it. This combo in stock form does pretty well considering what it is. That being said there are better options than that charger. IMO
Click to expand...

well I have no plans of keeping the 63.5mm wheel if i can shave a few hundred rpm off spool up time.

i would love to get a 65 or 66mm wheel on the charger and see even 40psi in 2nd gear.
 
I really like this turbo stuff. Alot more to setting up a great combo than one might think. I was leary goin with a larger housing like a .91 a/r for the street but i said ok as i mainly use this truck as a puller. But it seems with smaller housing llike a .83 or .85 the 73 exhaust wheel causes it to become rather laggy even on smaller compressor wheel turbo like a 62mm. Theres not many people that will go through the fine details and exlpain them. Thanks chris for all the info and help.
 
Having run a big ED s468 and now an ED 362 (race cover 68mm t-wheel) i'd say unless you plan on alot and I mean alot of fuel stick with the s300 chargers. The big chargers will run like apes when you hit them with fuel but will not have the same area under the curve of a smaller s300 charger. My truck is much more fun to drive around with the 362 and still boogies when the pedal is mashed. Right now i'd win stop light to stop light battles I would have never won before without shifting the truck or staging for a full on 4x4 launch. Given my plans to just drive and have fun with the truck the smaller charger is where it's at for me. You want to go run some 11.50s and faster than well look at the big stuff.

If you have fuel for a legitimate 650+ rwhp than it's time to start looking at the s400 frame stuff, jmho.

Good luck.
 
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