The quest to cure death wobble

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SMOKED

Big Iron Mechanic
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
259
The entire front end is new parts on a project truck along with the new t-style upgrade. Old track bar with new bushings but with two different brands. Truck has some old but not completely worn out shocks. Has a level lift. Truck has no death wobble with stock e-rated Michelins. On purpose i took some d-rated worn out bfg mud terrains and two bfg ats both sizes in a 315 70-17. Tires are not balanced just hand mounted on stock steel wheels, again for this test i did this on purpose. I hit this special test pothole at about 65 mph and wobbles with both sets of BFG 8 ply tires but not the michelins 265s. I want to prove its not the tires. I had someone turn the steering wheel back and forth while i was under the truck and did notice the frame end bushing has about 3/16 play and no play on the axle side. The bushing on the frame side is moog with the bushing in a steel cup and the axle side is a raysbestos. The one on the axle end (raysbestos) is just to urethane bushings no cup and a steel spacer. I took two steel washers and bore out the centers to fit around the steel spacer in the center of the frame side bushing and had to tap the track bar back into the frame and then torqued the bolt to 150 ftlbs. Did the steering check again and now no movement at all in the frame side bushing. But now I have about 1/8 play at the axle end when I had none before. Took on a test drive and i have to hit the pothole just right to get it to go into wobble at about 75mph with the unbalanced bfg tires. I will buy another moog bushing and do the washer trick on the axle side too and see what happens.
 
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I can get some. maybe tomorrow, if not then next weekend I put the washer in the bushing so that when you torque the bolt the washers get pressed off the frame from bolt torque and squish against the urethane making the urethane tighter, if that makes any sense
 
Another thing i want to try is on the raysbestos bushing is a three piece, 2 urethanes and a steel bushing that the bolt goes through. I want to take it apart and find a thick washer and fit it so it slides inside the track bar and the center hole would be just big enough for the bushing to slide through the center and then press the bushings in so the washer would be dead center internal of the track bar end and then reinstall to see if it is a more solid feel but that might be a good way to snap the bolt if you hit something hard.
 
What I have found is these trucks do not like any worn down bfg. I think they're great tires but the steering does not like them. I had brand new 08.5 steering, carli ball joints less than 5000 miles, thuren trac bar, bilstein 7100 stab...brand new km2 were great till I got to about 50% tread and had developed bad death wobble. Got some pro com extreme at's...got em cheap...and death wobble was gone. One of the tires did not balance out right and chewed up a tie rod so I trashed them and put some used bfg at. Couldn't even hit an expansion joint on the highway without it almost ripping my truck apart. Now I have my toyo 37" mts and they ride awesome and no wobble or other issues
 
you are right the bfg tires are not for these trucks, but i want to eliminate the wobble with the crappiest tires i can find so it will be flawless with good tires even though i am certain the wobble will not be eliminated for long
 
Ran several sets of BFG's on my 01. Never an issue. I see the cf belief of BFG's being an issue is spreading over here.
 
track bar.jpg here is a pic with the washers installed on the raysbestos bushing
 
BgBlDodge said:
Ran several sets of BFG's on my 01. Never an issue. I see the cf belief of BFG's being an issue is spreading over here.
Click to expand...

Same here. Ran wore our used/free BGF All-Terrains on my 01 and my current 05. Never had a lick of trouble from either. When I ran the wore out BFG's on my 05, the front end was OK. Both lower ball joints had slack at the time but it never wobbled.


I know it's a different application, but food for thought. The truck in my avatar has cross over steering with well used and abused 40'' pitbull rocker tires on the front. King pins were rebuilt on the front axle, new drag link ends, heim rod ends for trac bar, new wheel bearings, all home built 3 link suspension. It had death wobble for the longest and we couldn't figure it out. We even changed the steering setup three times.
Turns out, most of the problem lied in tire pressure. If I don't keep the pressure in the front tires within 2psi of the magic pressure, it will shake like a salt shaker.
 
a little strange i picked up 10mph with just two washers, i am going to mod the axle end bushing this weekend and have one set of the bfgs balanced and try it again
 
picked up 10 how?

i had the DW BAD. real bad... it even cost me a laptop flying out of the front seat onto the floor.

i replaced my ball joints to XRF then found myself a new alignment guy and told him to use my alignment specs i found online and i havent had it since.

i have never touched my trac bar bushings and i have always had 315/70 17's on the truck. the only tire change i made was going from a yokahama geolander to a cooper discoverer at3.


...come to think of it, the coopers have never done it. not even close. i have had 2 sets of coopers now and i am in love with them.
 
BgBlDodge said:
Ran several sets of BFG's on my 01. Never an issue. I see the cf belief of BFG's being an issue is spreading over here.
Click to expand...

Different axles. I know you know, but I known plenty of people not having problems with 2 nd gens. But I had 2 other guys in my battalion go through the exact scenero I did with their third gens
 
balanced the tires and it still does it, i am going out right now to mod the axle end of the track bar
 
Two questions: is this problem on lift pucks and stock control arms?
What is the caster set to?

From my Not-So-Smart phone
 
biggy238 said:
Two questions: is this problem on lift pucks and stock control arms?
What is the caster set to?

From my Not-So-Smart phone
Click to expand...

Sock springs stock control arms with 2 inch steel spacer, I tried different settings with the castor and right now it is maxed out, I just finished modding the axle end track bar bushing but it still has death wobble with the bfgs. I dont think it is in the track bar on this truck because there is no play in the track bar at all. I will take it to an alignment shop and see what happens. If that does not work I will try a dual steering stabilizer and also wonder if i need to add a two inch lift to the rear for more castor. Steps I will follow, alignment, rear lift, dual steering stabilizer, reinstall the sway bar, different 8 ply tires, 10 ply tires. So far new parts are ball joints, t-style steering upgrade, new track bar bushings, new steering stabilizer and new pitman arm.
 
TheBigNasty said:
Winner winner chicken dinner.
Click to expand...

I think you and I somehow gravitate to these threads.

It doesn't matter what tires you have if your steering geometry is ****ed up.
If all you intend to do is level, you need four things:
1) lift
2) radius arms long enough to put the axle back where it was intended to be
3) a long enough track bar to recenter the axle and allow proper range of motion
4) an alignment that does on thing, make sure the to ball joint is behind the lower when viewed from the side.

There are a million threads about this and one answer.

And like all those others that said an isolator works, you are masking a symptom and not fixing it.

From my Not-So-Smart phone
 
Lol looks like I have some dead spots on my phone screen

From my Not-So-Smart phone
 
biggy238 said:
I think you and I somehow gravitate to these threads.

It doesn't matter what tires you have if your steering geometry is ****ed up.
If all you intend to do is level, you need four things:
1) lift
2) radius arms long enough to put the axle back where it was intended to be
3) a long enough track bar to recenter the axle and allow proper range of motion
4) an alignment that does on thing, make sure the to ball joint is behind the lower when viewed from the side.

There are a million threads about this and one answer.

And like all those others that said an isolator works, you are masking a symptom and not fixing it.

From my Not-So-Smart phone
Click to expand...
That is the point i am trying to make, one thing at a time until its gone. It is a project truck that i can tinker with to maybe help some others that have daily drivers with death wobble speed up their fix with less money. The track bar bushing mods made the seat of the pants steering feel tighter and respond more firm. I will take it in for an alignment somewhere in between tests.
 
Don't take it personal as I didn't read the thread to know where anyone is in their personal quest.
I'm just trying to get across that there is no real doing it a step at a time.

If you install pucks, you have done four things to your front axle, moved it rearward toward the rear axle, rotated it away from the chassis, and pulled it toward the driver side. The combination of these things facilitates the fourth, which is destroying any hope of restoring enough caster to fix death wobble.

You have to fix the system because pucks break the geometry.

From my Not-So-Smart phone
 
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