Using tranny fluid for injector pump lubricant

[BgBlDodge]

Nobody said it wont burn. We said its not designed to burn. And a lot of mechanics are stuck back in the 60s mind set and don't adapt real well to today's technology.

I just drained my tranny fluid and you couldn't pay me to run that through my ppump much less a VP. Very gritty and nasty. Not to mention the residual clutch material in the fluid.

 

[SINNER]

The only fallacy in this thread is that the friction modifiers are there to make the fluid less slippery. It is there in fact to increase the lubricity of the fluid not reduce it. Original ATF blends used whale oil to make the fluid more lubricious. The same exact reason friction modifiers are needed in some limited slip diffs. Normal oils are not slick enough to stop the clutches from grabbing, therefore causing chatter. ATF has some of the highest detergent levels of any oil made, making it an excellent cleaner. Just take a filthy grease caked part and soak it in ATF just to see how well it works. I would bet if someone actually tested it vs. 2 stroke oil for this purpose it would exceed the 2 stroke oil by a huge margin. As for the ash produced I say that is BS also, as the soot produced by diesel combustion is prob. 100 times the level of ash that would be produced and also more corrosive but the engines see no problems other than the soot loading that occurs to the engine oil. But modern diesel oils are designed to function properly from the thickening that occurs as it ages and absorbs the soot.

 

[VMacKenzie]

I've never been clear about what is bad about ash. . . is it abrasive to cylinder walls & rings? Does it leave hard deposits in the combustion chamber?

 

[Timbeaux]

I just drained my tranny fluid and you couldn't pay me to run that through my ppump much less a VP. Very gritty and nasty. Not to mention the residual clutch material in the fluid.

That is what fuel filters are for LOL

 

[BgBlDodge]

Meh LOL

 

[honestcharlie56]

Lets learn a little here then, why does every mechanic that i know when changing a diesel filter they fill the new one full with ATF and start the engine if ATF does not break down and burn? How does the engine run then? Im sticking with ATF cause it works fine for my truck and everyone elses truck i know.

mechanic is such a general term thrown around by everyone......mechanic means on thing to me, said person works with tools and does the majority of his works on things with tires. I've rebuilt more engines than years you've been alive....does that make me an expert on chemical engineering and chemical reactions.....no. They run it because thats what they've done for years and years. Who said ATF wouldn't burn???? I stated it was not designed to burn. Pretty much everything has a flash point, so saying something wont burn is pretty dumb anyway. You go ahead and stick with the ATF, I just want this fact to be known, 2-cycle is much much better for the injection system.

 

[SINNER]

mechanic is such a general term thrown around by everyone......mechanic means on thing to me, said person works with tools and does the majority of his works on things with tires. I've rebuilt more engines than years you've been alive....does that make me an expert on chemical engineering and chemical reactions.....no. They run it because thats what they've done for years and years. Who said ATF wouldn't burn???? I stated it was not designed to burn. Pretty much everything has a flash point, so saying something wont burn is pretty dumb anyway. You go ahead and stick with the ATF, I just want this fact to be known, 2-cycle is much much better for the injection system.

Have any proof or are you just going off hearsay?

The ashless talk in this thread peaked my curiosity, so I did a little reading last night and like I suspected it is total bullchit when it pertains to combustion in a diesel engine. Here are a few facts.

The "ashless" nomenclature only pertains to the detergents added and has no bearing on the oil composition itself.

The ashless formulation was developed out of necessity, because 2 stroke outboard and jet ski engines were having issues with piston rings seizing due to deposits forming on the ring lands caused by low combustion chamber temps. Often these temps are less than 300* at the ring lands. At temps that low the calcium and magnesium (the same additives in ATF BTW) used in the detergents do not burn off. The low temps is attributed to the unlimited supply of cooling water in these applications.

Air cooled 2 stroke engines do not need a ashless formula because by design they run hot enough to completely burn off any deposits. This occurs at temps above 400* at the ring lands.

I am pretty sure ring land temps in stock diesels far exceed that number, modded ones for certain.

It amuses me how often a little bit of reading and a some comprehension debunks most "experts".

So basically in 1 hour of searching online and reading, all the experts arguments regarding friction modifiers and the excess ash produced by burning ATF is almost laughable. Seems to me most could learn a few things from those dumb old mechanics....

bif

 

[honestcharlie56]

Have any proof or are you just going off hearsay?

The ashless talk in this thread peaked my curiosity, so I did a little reading last night and like I suspected it is total bullchit when it pertains to combustion in a diesel engine. Here are a few facts.

The "ashless" nomenclature only pertains to the detergents added and has no bearing on the oil composition itself.

The ashless formulation was developed out of necessity, because 2 stroke outboard and jet ski engines were having issues with piston rings seizing due to deposits forming on the ring lands caused by low combustion chamber temps. Often these temps are less than 300* at the ring lands. At temps that low the calcium and magnesium (the same additives in ATF BTW) used in the detergents do not burn off. The low temps is attributed to the unlimited supply of cooling water in these applications.

Air cooled 2 stroke engines do not need a ashless formula because by design they run hot enough to completely burn off any deposits. This occurs at temps above 400* at the ring lands.

I am pretty sure ring land temps in stock diesels far exceed that number, modded ones for certain.

It amuses me how often a little bit of reading and a some comprehension debunks most "experts".

So basically in 1 hour of searching online and reading, all the experts arguments regarding friction modifiers and the excess ash produced by burning ATF is almost laughable. Seems to me most could learn a few things from those dumb old mechanics....

bif

why dont you go out and buy a VP truck......run the ATF for awhile........then report back with your results. The last 12v I tore into that was burning ATF/diesel mix, the injectors were caked up as hell. I'm glad your internet research taught you so much today!!

 

[kc04]

Well another psd guru that is fixin to say ford owns cummins and thats what they suggested!!LOLLOLLOLLOL

 

[SINNER]

why dont you go out and buy a VP truck......run the ATF for awhile........then report back with your results. The last 12v I tore into that was burning ATF/diesel mix, the injectors were caked up as hell. I'm glad your internet research taught you so much today!!

Right, and you verified that he wasn't a victim of bad fuel out of some yocal station full of algae or using used ATF. Or some homebrew Biofuel a buddy gave him.

Well another psd guru that is fixin to say ford owns cummins and thats what they suggested!!LOLLOLLOLLOL

Keep learnin LOL Ford yes. Powerstroke no more.

 

[idahocummins]

At what ratio should u mix the 2 cycle oil with 35 gallons of fuel

1oz per gallon is standard. i've done 2oz per gallon when pulling but for dd 1oz per gallon is great!....its good stuff your engine will run smother and fuel milage will bump up as well....run the ashless marine tw3

 

[Cutaway]

Sae 30

I run one quart of non-detergent SAE 30wt every fill up, accel brand at wally world... $2. I have always run non-detergent thinking that detergent type additives would cause hot spots on the piston face etc, BUT being a two stroke guy what sinner says makes sense about ashless vs. old aircooled vs. water cooled.... ohh well its cheap & in one quart cases is easy to store & add at fill up vs. gallon jug of two smoke. I will be honest the ATF debate intrigues (sp) me. I have always run 25% ATF in my parts washer & it does have incredible detergent properties. I too thought it had friction modifiers.. so I guess my questions is, would running a modern 30wt oil w/ cleaning additives work to to lubricate & keep things clean w/o causing hot spots? Maybe the best of both worlds?

Thanks!

 

[kc04]

Right, and you verified that he wasn't a victim of bad fuel out of some yocal station full of algae or using used ATF. Or some homebrew Biofuel a buddy gave him.



Keep learnin LOL Ford yes. Powerstroke no more.

Ha Ha but that still aint a vp truck. Common rail is an upgrade and you showed some pretty good paint skillsLOLLOLLOL but a long ways from atf in a vp

 

[honestcharlie56]

Right, and you verified that he wasn't a victim of bad fuel out of some yocal station full of algae or using used ATF. Or some homebrew Biofuel a buddy gave him.



Keep learnin LOL Ford yes. Powerstroke no more.

Truck looks bada$$......aside from that, you can tell me a million times that ATF makes a great fuel, doesnt mean that it does...VP's love 2stroke, thats that.

 

[dripley]

1oz per gallon is standard. i've done 2oz per gallon when pulling but for dd 1oz per gallon is great!....its good stuff your engine will run smother and fuel milage will bump up as well....run the ashless marine tw3

i have been running 1oz per gallon for 6 months and it works great, quiter too. small bump in mpg