Valve Seat Idea: Possible? Functional?

Amish Elegance

Amish Elegance

Schadenfreude
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May 1, 2006
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Instead of peening or boring out and replacing with cryo interference fit seats, has anyone ever tried laser welding either the factory seats or replacements?

I'm not sure of material compatibility,(I know bronze replacements are out of the question) but the minimal heat and pinpoint accuracy assure warpage or annealing surrounding material would likely not be an issue. It could penetrate as nearly as deep as peening.

Anyway, I just had some experience recently with a laser welded part, kinda got me thinking... maybe its crazy, but if it did work it would save a crap ton of machine work given the alternatives.

Would it work?
 
The first thing that comes to mind is that the head and seat are most likely two different materials. If the thermal expansion rates are not the same then I am sure you would have cracking issue pretty quick.
 
Use an electron beam welder. :)

Be interesting to see as since the laser doesn't use a "filler" material, and just uses the materials from the existing metals, IIRC.
 
Functional? Probably not since peening or pinning them in is far cheaper and just as effective.
 
zstroken said:
Use an electron beam welder. :)

Be interesting to see as since the laser doesn't use a "filler" material, and just uses the materials from the existing metals, IIRC.
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Some lasers can use a filler metal. Laser clad welders atomize the filler metal and are used to rebuild small surfaces to be remachined. The comp wheel i had in my old avatar had that done to it. But again you run into the problem of diffrrent expansion rates between the metals.
One might suggest heat treating the base metal to match the hardness of the seat, just a thought.
Laser welding is defiantly an option.


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Schrowang said:
Some lasers can use a filler metal. Laser clad welders atomize the filler metal and are used to rebuild small surfaces to be remachined. The comp wheel i had in my old avatar had that done to it. But again you run into the problem of diffrrent expansion rates between the metals.
One might suggest heat treating the base metal to match the hardness of the seat, just a thought.
Laser welding is defiantly an option.


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Thanks for the info, all of the laser welding I am familiar with was in manufacturing. The lasers weren't the first choice of welding, but the cheap initial price allowed them to used.
 
Why not leave the seats out and cast weld the seat area to fill it so it can be machined into a new seat without the risk of a seat that can drop? The vp44 heads worked fine without hardened seats.
 
LReiff said:
Why not leave the seats out and cast weld the seat area to fill it so it can be machined into a new seat without the risk of a seat that can drop? The vp44 heads worked fine without hardened seats.
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One could do that with laser cladding, just use a harder filler metal. Its basically what i do every day but on a larger scale.


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EEP uses their own seats which have a higher nickel content. They cryo them in. They claim they've never had a seat failure with them. It might be something that doesn't need to get real technical.
 
triton said:
It might be something that doesn't need to get real technical.
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A local guy that is pretty well known in the billet hemi head world made his first seats out of a piece of cold rolled that was on the scrap pile. Still uses the same stuff. Never had a seat failure. I realize it's a different application, but shows sometimes we work too hard for a solution.
 
I personally feel that proper installation is extremely critical and possibly the best solution. Where I'm from some machine shops have the skills and others do not.
 
LReiff said:
I personally feel that proper installation is extremely critical and possibly the best solution. Where I'm from some machine shops have the skills and others do not.
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Hammer and a punch?


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Schrowang said:
Hammer and a punch?


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You may try that if you wish, I would never. Proper installation as some have eluded to is all in precision machine work. A machine shop capable of ISO standards is a good place to start.
 
Its hard to hear my sarcasm over the interwebs. When i fluxed my last head all mine were cracked i opted for a new head. Solved my problem at least for a while.


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I had a local machine shop that works mostly on cylinder heads quote me $1200 to remove the seats, weld it up and remachine it to not have a seat anymore. Lot of expense up front but if you have a lot invested in a build might be worth it. $.02 This quote was 3 years ago so the price has probably changed since then.
 
Negative, it would crack right away. Laser welding doesn't get **** for penetration anyways. You could maybe rig up a resistance welding system, but why?

We've installed more seats then I can count and never had one fall out. No peening or any bull****, just make a good round hole with sufficient interference and you are fine. I wouldn't trust most automotive machine shops to do the job. There is a saying "automotive machinists, aren't".
 
PASSENGER said:
Negative, it would crack right away. Laser welding doesn't get **** for penetration anyways. You could maybe rig up a resistance welding system, but why?

We've installed more seats then I can count and never had one fall out. No peening or any bull****, just make a good round hole with sufficient interference and you are fine. I wouldn't trust most automotive machine shops to do the job. There is a saying "automotive machinists, aren't".
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Laser welding gets good enough penetration to be re machined.


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Schrowang said:
Laser welding gets good enough penetration to be re machined.


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You would get a whopping .02" at best, if you ponied up for a bigger laser you would have been smart enough to use plasma instead...

Laser is used for welding thin materials, you need a hefty machine to do full penetration tube welding with laser, which is why most of it is done with plasma.
 
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