What kind of hp gains with timing above 20*

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Loud&Obnoxious

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Hey guys I'm just curious as to what kind of hp gains do you get with timing above and beyond 20*.

Thanks Jeremy
 
I think a lot of it has to do with getting power at higher rpms, especially in situations where a lot of single charger/twin charger setups don't spool (build boost) until 3k+ RPM.
You'll see much better performance (at least on the track, not sure dyno wise) if you time above 20 degrees with a charger that size, I know I did.
 
I think it matters the most as to what type of RPM your setup is made to make peak power at and where you run your truck at RPM wise normally. If you want to be running 4500+ then sure 30*+ timing would be benificial, but if your setup is only good to 3800-4000 then IMO 25* or less would be best.

I may be way off but that is what I understand of it...
 
Muddin_dude06 said:
I think it matters the most as to what type of RPM your setup is made to make peak power at and where you run your truck at RPM wise normally. If you want to be running 4500+ then sure 30*+ timing would be benificial, but if your setup is only good to 3800-4000 then IMO 25* or less would be best.

I may be way off but that is what I understand of it...
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Is there an echo in here??? ;)
 
Just gotta be sure you're still keeping the fuel in the bowl with the timing up like that. If it's not, the only thing you'll gain is cylinder and piston damage.
 
PRattenbury said:
Just gotta be sure you're still keeping the fuel in the bowl with the timing up like that. If it's not, the only thing you'll gain is cylinder and piston damage.
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Is there anyway to tell that it isn't spraying in the bowl but indeed on the edge of it without pulling the head off?
 
Muddin_dude06 said:
Is there anyway to tell that it isn't spraying in the bowl but indeed on the edge of it without pulling the head off?
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If you knew the spray angle of your injectors, then you coudl run through the math and figure it out.
 
215 pump, DDP4's, .020 washers, +.020 HG...5.95mm lift. Which I think is about 18*

What kinda math is involved to figure it Weston?
Chris
 
Loud&Obnoxious said:
Hey guys I'm just curious as to what kind of hp gains do you get with timing above and beyond 20*.

Thanks Jeremy
Click to expand...

It kinda depends. Big ol turbos, injectors and plungers need the higher timing to make the most peak power.

You can move the power band up the range past 2700 with more timing, but the further you do, the further you move away from the "optimum" point at which the pumps cam, and generally the system is designed to make the most power.

I run 26 degrees as measured at the injector side before TDC. But I have a large plunger, large injectors and a cam profile in the pump more set up for higher RPM.

With your HR370's, 215 pump, and single turbo - 19 degrees works very well. Dynos like 19 degrees. It should rev past 4K with ease. Long term use of high injection advance past 19 really pounds on the rod bearings. The mains dont seem to care much at all until you pass 800 HP on Diesel. Then the caps start to dance a bit. Try 6mm of lift and creep it up from there. 6mm's of plunger lift is not the same in all pumps. You could take ( 10 ) different 215 pumps and get them all set at 6mm and end up with ( 10 ) different advance numbers at the injector. This is why you should start at 6 and move up until the power begins to drop off and the rattle just off idle gets too loud.
 
Soup Nazi said:
It kinda depends. Big ol turbos, injectors and plungers need the higher timing to make the most peak power.

You can move the power band up the range past 2700 with more timing, but the further you do, the further you move away from the "optimum" point at which the pumps cam, and generally the system is designed to make the most power.

I run 26 degrees as measured at the injector side before TDC. But I have a large plunger, large injectors and a cam profile in the pump more set up for higher RPM.

With your HR370's, 215 pump, and single turbo - 19 degrees works very well. Dynos like 19 degrees. It should rev past 4K with ease. Long term use of high injection advance past 19 really pounds on the rod bearings. The mains dont seem to care much at all until you pass 800 HP on Diesel. Then the caps start to dance a bit. Try 6mm of lift and creep it up from there. 6mm's of plunger lift is not the same in all pumps. You could take ( 10 ) different 215 pumps and get them all set at 6mm and end up with ( 10 ) different advance numbers at the injector. This is why you should start at 6 and move up until the power begins to drop off and the rattle just off idle gets too loud.
Click to expand...

19* is where I have it and have for a couple years now. I was thinking about jumping it to 21 or so for the next time I dyno it and see what happens.

Don
What kind of change would you expect to happen? Also I'm running some DDP dv's, so I'm curious you said dv's are late fuel so would more timing be better for them?
 
Don, can spill port timing take some of the guess work out and help nail down 19* onthe first try?

Soup Nazi said:
It kinda depends. Big ol turbos, injectors and plungers need the higher timing to make the most peak power.

You can move the power band up the range past 2700 with more timing, but the further you do, the further you move away from the "optimum" point at which the pumps cam, and generally the system is designed to make the most power.

I run 26 degrees as measured at the injector side before TDC. But I have a large plunger, large injectors and a cam profile in the pump more set up for higher RPM.

With your HR370's, 215 pump, and single turbo - 19 degrees works very well. Dynos like 19 degrees. It should rev past 4K with ease. Long term use of high injection advance past 19 really pounds on the rod bearings. The mains dont seem to care much at all until you pass 800 HP on Diesel. Then the caps start to dance a bit. Try 6mm of lift and creep it up from there. 6mm's of plunger lift is not the same in all pumps. You could take ( 10 ) different 215 pumps and get them all set at 6mm and end up with ( 10 ) different advance numbers at the injector. This is why you should start at 6 and move up until the power begins to drop off and the rattle just off idle gets too loud.
Click to expand...
 
Smokem said:
Need to know the Year or HP rating, what injectors, headgasket thickness, and injector washer thickness to determine if the advance is within the limit.
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Well I geuss I am SOL then, I have no clue what the spray angle is on my injectors. I just know that the guy I bought them from had them made for his sledpulling truck and he was running a lot of timing. I do know that when it was set at 18* my truck ran great, they really liked the higher timing :)
 
Smokem said:
They used different injector washer thickness between the 2 models. Your current setup would equate to 19*, I would not go over 6.2mm with your injectors.
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Oh...OK! Thanks for the help Weston. I was planning on bumping it up once I got all my re-torques done, now I have something "technical" to go on:D

Chris
 
zstroken said:
If you knew the spray angle of your injectors, then you coudl run through the math and figure it out.
Click to expand...

also interested in knowing this.

i have been told my DDP's are 155* so i would be interested in learning some math :snoop:
 
You guys said it hammers the rod bearings and could result in piston an cylinder damage. Why is increased timing bad? Why does it do these things?
 
Muddin_dude06 said:
I think it matters the most as to what type of RPM your setup is made to make peak power at and where you run your truck at RPM wise normally. If you want to be running 4500+ then sure 30*+ timing would be benificial, but if your setup is only good to 3800-4000 then IMO 25* or less would be best.

I may be way off but that is what I understand of it...
Click to expand...

I've tried this a little bit and I came up with 20 being the best, based on nothing, I got good numbers at 20 and at 25 the same numbers except later in the band, mine will not make good power past 3500 with 20 degrees, take it for what it is worth.

Jim
 
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