Winter Build - 12 valve 10.5 class

wilmesbm

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I was reading a thread a couple of weeks ago about the lack of quality threads here on the forum as of late. Because of that, I decided to start this thread in hopes of generating some quality discussion.

About halfway through this summer I switched to running a 480 as a single on my ppumped 24 valve. I was able to get a little bit of testing in, but the rack hung on my pump during my last pass. I had plans on going to a 13mm pump over the winter anyway, so I wasn't too upset. Just ended the year a little early for me.

Because of that, I am going to build a 12 valve that I have been gathering parts for to drop in my bagged 1959 Apache. I'll just put a different pump on my ppumped 24 valve and put it in the Apache in place of the 12 valve I was going to build.

The truck is a 2002 quad cab 2500 4x4 that I race with maybe 12-15 times a year at a handful of dirt drags and quarter mile races within a couple hour radius of Cincinnati. It hasn't seen the street hardly at all in the last couple of years, so the decision was made to completely gut it and not worry about keeping it streetable anymore. I'm not sure what it weighs at this point, but it's going on a serious diet this year.

The ultimate goal for the truck is to be able to compete in the 10.5 class when my schedule allows me to attend. It won't be on a regular basis, but it's something to shoot for.

At this point, I have a fresh 5.9 block, polished 5.9 crank, 12 valve rods, marine bowl pistons, loaded 12 valve head with necessary valve train upgrades (pushrods, keepers, retainers, springs, etc.) 188/220 cam, and a ton of other misc. stuff.

Now for the discussion part. What to do for air? Can a single turbo 12 valve be competitive in the 10.5 class? I have a couple different s480s on hand already and would like to utilize that if that's doable. I was originally thinking a 480/87/1.0 and some spray would work well for what I'm after, but wanted to confirm that.

Truck already has nitrous on it and I'm not opposed to continuing to use it in the future. That seems like the most cost effective route to me, and budget is a huge concern. If that's the case, however, what can be done to keep the pistons from puddling?

Take this thread and run with it. Offer any kind of insight, advice, past experiences, and/or constructive criticism you may have. It's been a while since we've had a decent high horsepower 12 valve thread, so hopefully we can get some good discussion started.
 
I'd rather have compounds than spray, even on a 12v. Nitrous tends to melt pistons/walls if everything isn't perfect.

Any idea on race weight?
 
What typically leads to melt downs with nitrous? Just curious
 
Can't seem to get the heat out of the cylinder fast enough. Piston melts and takes out the cylinder wall. Or press-in valve seats drop. Or it fire-trenches the head gasket.
 
I'd rather have compounds than spray, even on a 12v. Nitrous tends to melt pistons/walls if everything isn't perfect.

Any idea on race weight?

No, not sure on race weight at this point. Working on coming up with a realistic number to shoot for though.

I'm not against building another set of compounds or even a set of triples if that's the smartest move at this point. The major downfall with that for me is the initial cost of building a large set of compounds.
 
Can't seem to get the heat out of the cylinder fast enough. Piston melts and takes out the cylinder wall. Or press-in valve seats drop. Or it fire-trenches the head gasket.

That's good info. I've heard a lot about melting pistons, but not much about valve seats and head gaskets.
 
That's good to know. We did a small bump and that's all. Don't think we will ever go farther than that after reading this. I have wanted to be fuel only anyways.
 
With a race weight around 4500 lbs, a 63/480 combo would get you the number with a good head and fuel. You may not have much past it, but it should get you there.
 
With a race weight around 4500 lbs, a 63/480 combo would get you the number with a good head and fuel. You may not have much past it, but it should get you there.

It won't be anywhere near that lightweight. Maybe someone who has stripped down a 2nd Gen will chime in, but I think even 6500 pounds is wishful thinking. I know it's possible to go lighter, but it takes a lot of money to do so. I'm not that serious about it.
 
You can do 10.50 with the 480. Keep it simple and the pressures low with a single. If I would of known the 10:50-90 class would have got popular I would of kept my 480 single setup. Assuming the weight is not too high and it can 60ft stay where your at. If you have a tough time with the 60 maybe go with 72/488 or what have you.

Nitrous raises pressures and temps allot. From my experience and others Around us lower fuel levels (12mm pump) and nitrous works. Big fuel and nitrous will make more power but will up pressures and EGTs big time. Especially with 13mm pump. We were seeing 2000-2200 degrees on 13mm pump, 480, 5x.020 and healthy dose of nitrous. Not saying it can't work we just have not been able to do so yet.

Pics of car?
 
You can do 10.50 with the 480. Keep it simple and the pressures low with a single. If I would of known the 10:50-90 class would have got popular I would of kept my 480 single setup. Assuming the weight is not too high and it can 60ft stay where your at. If you have a tough time with the 60 maybe go with 72/488 or what have you.

Nitrous raises pressures and temps allot. From my experience and others Around us lower fuel levels (12mm pump) and nitrous works. Big fuel and nitrous will make more power but will up pressures and EGTs big time. Especially with 13mm pump. We were seeing 2000-2200 degrees on 13mm pump, 480, 5x.020 and healthy dose of nitrous. Not saying it can't work we just have not been able to do so yet.

Pics of car?

That was my experience as well. I was able to run a 12mm pump on nitrous and it worked great. then I went to a 13mm and always had heat issues, like melted turbines, turbine housings and such. I now just use the gas to help spool up at the light.
 
My truck is an extended cab long bed in full street trim, no hvac, full 8.50 cert cage, Water/Air, roll pan, no spare, 16 gallon fuel cell, etc and it weighs 6480lbs with me in it. You could very easily get it below 6000 lbs.

I love the power curve provided by compounds. There is no way I'd go back to a single but a lot of people run them. I run mine on fuel only. I've ran nitrous and always had heat issues. I run a 12mm pump but it fuels pretty hard. I ended up figuring out I wasn't pushing my secondary hard enough causing some excess heat but during that time for example on fuel at 30* timing I was around 1900* and with a small .050 jet at 26* it hit 2300* for 2/10ths of a second right after the O/D shift. So in my experience mechanical engines really heat up. I'd stay away from it but you might figure out a setup that works well with it. For me it wasn't worth the turbine destruction. :hehe:

An 80/87 really isn't that big now a days. If you run a loose stall and you're trying to run the 80's you've currently got I don't think it'll be a problem. It might be beneficial to run a .030 jet or so to aid in spool up since you've already got nitrous on the truck.
 
My truck is an extended cab long bed in full street trim, no hvac, full 8.50 cert cage, Water/Air, roll pan, no spare, 16 gallon fuel cell, etc and it weighs 6480lbs with me in it. You could very easily get it below 6000 lbs.



I love the power curve provided by compounds. There is no way I'd go back to a single but a lot of people run them. I run mine on fuel only. I've ran nitrous and always had heat issues. I run a 12mm pump but it fuels pretty hard. I ended up figuring out I wasn't pushing my secondary hard enough causing some excess heat but during that time for example on fuel at 30* timing I was around 1900* and with a small .050 jet at 26* it hit 2300* for 2/10ths of a second right after the O/D shift. So in my experience mechanical engines really heat up. I'd stay away from it but you might figure out a setup that works well with it. For me it wasn't worth the turbine destruction. :hehe:



An 80/87 really isn't that big now a days. If you run a loose stall and you're trying to run the 80's you've currently got I don't think it'll be a problem. It might be beneficial to run a .030 jet or so to aid in spool up since you've already got nitrous on the truck.


What's so special about that 12mm sounds like it fuels like crazy. Amazes it was enough to break the block
 
What's so special about that 12mm sounds like it fuels like crazy. Amazes it was enough to break the block

When Kevin built it he said it was on the higher side for what he's seen out of a 12mm pump. Just matched well with everything else. The GTX5533-94 flows 178lbs/min and with drive:boost at 1:1 at 100psi I was running 9.7x's at full street weight and it still had plenty of fuel. After I turned it up I didn't even get to make a pass. The block broke at the top of 2nd gear. On to a bigger, badder block now though. I'll see how fast it'll go on a 12mm.
 
It won't be anywhere near that lightweight. Maybe someone who has stripped down a 2nd Gen will chime in, but I think even 6500 pounds is wishful thinking. I know it's possible to go lighter, but it takes a lot of money to do so. I'm not that serious about it.

I'd say about 6K with driver if you're not that serious.
 
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