installing a fire ringed gasket

cosmo22nov

cosmo22nov

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Jun 11, 2007
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ok so my motor was rebuilt about 10,000 miles ago and i had a fire ringed gasket installed while it was apart. we ll just recently it started leaking coolant through the gasket at the front of the motor towards the middle. any ways i just ordered my new gasket and it sould be here sometime this week. i want to know exactly what is needed for the install. i have never done a head gasket before so bear with me.

thanks,
Tanner
 
i dont want to bust your bubble man, but expect to redo the fire ring setup every 10-15k miles, fire rings should only really be used in a competition only application, or where high boost sealing is needed. the rings themselves dont seem to hold up near as long as a properly done oring setup. i had a fire ring setup on my truck, and i have redone the setup 2 times, both times the rings failed, and cracked. the last time i went with a oring setup, becuase i dont see high boost, over 60psi, and dont use nitrous or water meth. if you are pulling the head, i would have it thouroughly checked, for flatness, the surface finish, and the ring grooves also, if one of the grooves is not cut right, that could be the cause right there, but the headgasket, and rings must go through the proper amount of heat cycles, and retorques to ensure that the rings are fully compressed. to do the repair, you will need a good engine hoist to lift the head off the block, good set of metric sockets, wrenches hand tools, lifting chain, a good set of feeler gauges. make sure that you have some moly grease for the arp studs, quality 3/8 &1/2" torque wrenches that are properly calibrated, I can't stress that enough, your dont want to over torquing, or under torquing the studs, and bolts you'll be installing. if you got access to a air compressor, and air tools, that will save time with dissasembly. some masking tape to cover openings that you dont want stuff to get into. it's not a really hard process, just take your time, make sure you mark wires taken off, and keep the valve train parts marked so that they go back in the same way taken out. if you have more questions, dont be afraid to ask!

Wes
 
I already have the head off, just waiting for the gasket now. the fire rings were just fine, I didn't have any breaks between the cylinders. it started pushing coolant through the gasket in the front. and thanks a ton for all the advice wes! what should I do for the torqueing sequence?
 
oh I'm sorry not the sequence, I have that at home in my repair manual. I meant like what I should torque it to first and what increments I should torque it in and what the final torque specs should be.
 
what i did first was 60ft. lb.-then 90 then 125. i plug in the block heater to help the block get warm, start the truck, and run untill the thermostat opens, shut off, while keeping the block heater plugged in, torque the studs to 130, start the truck, and drive around keep the boost under 10psi, let the thermostat cycle a couple of times, go back and retorque to 130. after that, drive for about a week, try and get a couple hundred miles on it, still keeping the boost under 10 psi, go back and do another retorque, while still warm/hot, use the block heater to help retain heat. the heat allows the studs to "relax" slightly so that when they cool, they help make the head bite into the gasket even more each time you do a retorque. afther that, you can start to thrash on it. go back after 2500 miles or so, and do another retorque. and you should be good. hope this helps!

Wes
 
so 130 ft lbs. should be enough right? I've just heard of so many different numbers when it comes to these arp studs
 
if they are the ARP 2000 series studs, i would not go more than 130ft.lbs., your are asking for trouble after that. some say they have gone more, but your are starting to really stress the stud. if they are the ARP 625's, then you can take then up to 160ft.lbs. i believe.

Wes
 
I did 25, 50, 70, 90, 105, 115, 120, 125, 130, 135 On my 12mm ARP's, And every torquing sequence I let them cool off for about 10 minutes. Doing it that way I never had an issue with my firerings. And I will be putting the firerings in the block this time!
 
i had the same thing happen to mine, rings were fine no compression getting by but it would seep coolant. i went through 2 setts of rings before it finally sealed. the thing that had to be done to my motor was the installaiton of 14mm studs. i have the rings in my truck to prove it labeled from their location on the motor. the center rings didnt crush much at all, meaning not enough clamping force. 14mms went in and i havent had any trouble yet, at least with that part of the motor. work from the center out and use plenty of moly lube and retorque multiple times. fyi my fire rings weere installed with a groove in the head and the deck then the ring is compressed between them. i currently have over 60k on this set of rings.
 
Do you guys pull the nut off each time and re-coat it with molly lube inbetween each torque? Or do you just pull them one by one? do you loosen them before pulling each one to the new tq.
 
what i did is started with 50all of them. 70all of them .90all of them. finished with125.did 3 heat cycles.removed the nut coated with molly 50/90/130 on one at a time.as far as your last question not when you first do it.50 all, then just up to 70,and so on.
 
Interesting guys. I also have had a fire ring failure. The ring cracked/disintegrated on the #3. I first torqued to cold 60, 90, 120, hot 125, 130, and 135 after 2 weeks of driving. I had 6k when it let go. When i had a failure i contacted Patty Haisley and she asked me to send it to her and they will look it over. Well 6 weeks of not hearing form them i called and they said it was caused from extreme cylinder pressures, most likely caused from stacking box's. I barked back and said i only have a Edge juice, she said sorry that they cant warranty it for that reason. So from that day forward i don't buy any thing from haisleys. I bolted on a new gasket and did cold 60, 90, 120, hot low boost 15 psi and under 120, hot 125, 3 heat cycles 125, 2 weeks 130, 1 month 135. No problems yet and i have 35k on it now. I have groves in the head and block. 15 thousands in each.
 
I brought my ARPs up to 140#.
All my retorques were done COLD!

There is a thread going on now in the Dodge Competition section about retorques. Check it out.
 
everytime my rings failed, they seemed to crack, or disenegrate on the #3,&4 cylinder.... so maybe there wansn't enough clamp force. it's all good, im more than happy with my oring setup, and yes each time i did the retorque, i loosend the nut one at a time following the cummins sequence, made sure the stud was seated correctly, i basically backed the stud off, made sure it was finger tight, reapplied a little moly, and torqued down to 130. reset the valves and put everything back together.
 
wes, if and when my fire rings fail i am going to follow the route you took and use o rings the next time. very proven and when done correctly very effective. (hey there is a pull this sat at the ag center)
 
not trying to budge in guys just addin my piece but jeff garmon with garmons diesel uses stock head bolts and tourqes them to 155, which seeing from my previous history of blowin head gaskets it seems to hold very well. he starts at like 90 and goes in 5 lb increments up to 155. im pushing about 60psi with absolutely no problems.
 
kevin_hurt2020 said:
not trying to budge in guys just addin my piece but jeff garmon with garmons diesel uses stock head bolts and tourqes them to 155, which seeing from my previous history of blowin head gaskets it seems to hold very well. he starts at like 90 and goes in 5 lb increments up to 155. im pushing about 60psi with absolutely no problems.
Click to expand...

WOW...

interesting
 
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