Swole...Again!

I ran a whole race without a lift pump (not on purpose). It ran very consistient 11.55's. The low pressure pumps in the CP3's will cavitate, and the vapor created will destroy the pumps and will harm the injectors. You will see people argue that the Durmax doesn't come with a lift pump, but you will also see that is one thing that is added, as soon as the CP3 starts flowing a pretty good amount of fuel.

I hear you about not looking at the gauges. As I have said before, if you have time to look at the gauges, then your truck is to slow. I use the ISSPRO Performax gauges. They have a peak recall feature, that will show peaks (or in some cases like fuel pressure, lows). When you do the recall the values show on the gauges. I do this after every run, and record the values in the log book. Static pressure is one thing, but pressure under full load at the end of the track, is a much better thing to know. Most times of course, every run is the same, but I check each time, and then clear the values. I know it's hard to spend money on something that doesn't make the truck go faster, but I am a big fan of having gauges.

The fact that you added extra filters means that you are trying to do the right thing.

Paul
 
joelc79 said:
Swole..ur rp gauge is 25k at wot, but how long does it take to get thur. I'm guessing you have some seriouse suction from thos twin pumps. They are doing all the LP work and the HP work. Go to a 240gph airdog or fass and a Hellman sump. Ya have to ditch the stock filter housing and pluming though.
Its always sumthin in it..? good luck
Click to expand...


Yeah it stays up there but your right, the cp3's are doing the work since the Fass is suffering...

I don't quite think I need a 240...lol
Making 800-850 on a 95 was awsome...But I would bet a 150-165 would be better than the 95.. Esp. with my two filtering systems now..

My stock filter canister is totally gone...

Thanks Buddy!
 
paulb said:
I ran a whole race without a lift pump (not on purpose). It ran very consistient 11.55's. The low pressure pumps in the CP3's will cavitate, and the vapor created will destroy the pumps and will harm the injectors. You will see people argue that the Durmax doesn't come with a lift pump, but you will also see that is one thing that is added, as soon as the CP3 starts flowing a pretty good amount of fuel.

I hear you about not looking at the gauges. As I have said before, if you have time to look at the gauges, then your truck is to slow. I use the ISSPRO Performax gauges. They have a peak recall feature, that will show peaks (or in some cases like fuel pressure, lows). When you do the recall the values show on the gauges. I do this after every run, and record the values in the log book. Static pressure is one thing, but pressure under full load at the end of the track, is a much better thing to know. Most times of course, every run is the same, but I check each time, and then clear the values. I know it's hard to spend money on something that doesn't make the truck go faster, but I am a big fan of having gauges.

The fact that you added extra filters means that you are trying to do the right thing.

Paul
Click to expand...


Yes I agree I need to have to pump repaired / replaced soon!
I don't want it starving for fuel.


Yeah I was like that about gauges and things that didn't make power. I didn't want to spend the money.. But I did end up getting some gauges...

Biggest reason I don't have a million gauges like most folks is that I simply Hate the cluttered look! I didn't want 3-4 gauges down the pillar.. I want to keep my handle on the pillar with only the one gauge.. And I hate the look of the other dash mount type stuff...

I will eventually do something for my LP pressure and I need a DP gauge too I guess... I still don't see a need for the EGT though...

Some of them folks need / use for tuning bu all Out racing / playing at WOT, no way i can watch them..

I do like the "recall" feature of the set you have... That could be very useful..

Maybe someday..


And Yes, doubling the filtration is my effort to Protect my Injectors that were Blessed by the Pope!! lol
 
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Big Swole said:
Okay Christian... I appreciate your comments but...

-Two weeks after installing Flux 2's (Bodies and all..Not my orig. injectors) truck starts to "hard start" and then a days later won't crank..Bad Injector body.....Melted #4 piston... How did I fail them??

***iirc you used to run your mp-8 cranked all the way up...I guess since you don't watch your rp gauge...you didn't notice it pinned. It was common knowledge back then that 4.5's and newer ate injectors for breakfast with aggressive pressure boxs. Especially trucks with rail plugs.

-Freeze plug blows out of head (under valve cover)...Very rare problem... How did I fail them??

***you didn't have a coolant bypass...sure the head plugs are" usually harder" to blow than the back or side plugs...but you should of had one. Many many many people have made that mistake pror...common knowledg.

-Dual fuel controller box..Very Very few miles from a brand new kit..Out of spec... How did I fail it??

***its not your fault nit failed...it was your fault for not catching it before it did damage. I have had the same thing happen and noticed it within seconds.

-MP8 harness that was found with a wire lead off after my melt down... other than heat under the hood and a piece of chit shrink tubing...How did I fail it???

***again...chit breaks or malfuncions all the time...it is up to you...watching gauges or using your ears nose butt....whatever to realize it before more stuff gets wiped out.

-RP sensor found bad when first start up of new build... Well... I have no clue...Could have been trash from install or trash from the rail that I got... Who knows...But again I ask, How did I fail it??

***how much carb cleaner got on it? Lol. Anyways...just another spot where if you monitored your engine more closely. You would have caught that too!

-19page report shows High RP or driving habbits NOT the cause of my recent injector(s) issue... Ran fine when my F1 SAC tip split and then didn't run fine when they returned.... How did I fail here ???

***did it cover your tip install or the fact that your never had the bodies checked out prior to that? You should have had Don do a full check and build. I don't trust myself to mess with them and I don't think you should either.

-ALL 6 oil scraper rings found upside down... (debate about markings / cut being correct) but even if they were correct...How does someone as anal as me with 20/20 vision and a forum memeber looking over my shoulder actually install ALL 6 upside down perfectly "Simply" cause I "wasn't paying attetion"....hmmmm!
Either way.... I got new rings with new part numbers in a new box with new markings and the bevel on the opposite side... Hopefully now they are in correctly since I had not 2 but 3 people watching this time...lol

***oil rings have been doing the same thing for 50 plus years...instructions or not...good or bad markings or not...if you understood better how they work you would have never made that mistake. Sure....the rings might have been marked wrong...but you missed that! I have seen this a bunch of times between my motorcycle and auto engine builds.
Don't trust ring gap either....you have to have the right tools...the right experience...and enough patience to do it right. Slow down...ask more questions. Your like a bull seeing red sometimes...just slap it together...warm up...wot...then boom! Then 30 page posts why it broke?

Still not sure How I "Failed" here either but this can be debated another time...


How did I fail all the times exactly??

***Just sloooooow down and get it right! Your intent to filter more was great. The execution was really poor. You should have questioned prior to install...

-do these filters have the right flow rating/classification?
-what are their restriction and what will it do to overall flow/pressure?
-maybe I should install gauges pre and post filter so I have a clue?
-are my filters in the right order? It makes zero sense to go 100 micron then 2 micron then 100 micron then 2 mikcron unless you just want less fuel and quicker pump failure.
should have run 200 100 20 then 2 or parallel 100 then 2 microns? Make sense?
-are my lines sized right/
-etc etc.

Insead you just slapped then on there then blamed your pump?
Do you know how many gph it takes to do 800 to 1000 hp with dual cp3s (they have lots of return fuel!!!)? That number is know and or easy to calculate...then you have to back it up to the pump...account for flow loss dues to restriction (lift pump pressure is restriction)...etc etc.


And FTR... I'm not mad at ya man.. Just trying to clear up a few misconceptions that it seems you and hopefully not too many more here have of me....

***Stop worrying about personal misconceptions and start worrying about your gauges and your truck.

Can't it be that I simply just have THAT Bad of luck?? As opposed to me being some sort of an idiot??

***You are only and idiot when you rely on luck...like I said before...it will run out.

Been too many "Proven" people around me and helping me for all this to have simply been OUR faults.... None of this stuff happens to Jeff Garmon, Phil Taylor, Darren Morrison, and many more who have been around, watched, helped, and supervised me while building , racing, working on, etc my truck....

***It doesn't happen to them because they don't do what you do...watching or not...they are still doing something differently than you or they would have the same results. Scratch deeper than the surface and see what you find.

As you said, " Pleast take this^ the right way" Too!!
Click to expand...

***I did. ;)
 
Christian.....


Ok...Took me a second to figure out your "reply" method there....lol


- Yes I used to use MP8 100% and so did many..Ty (triton) does /did for MANY runs and NEVER had an injector issue.... It seemed hit / miss... As for that First Flux 2 failure after only 1.5 / 2 weeks...That was not due to my MP8 %... Hardly used it much at all except like on 3-4 passes...

-You're right, at the time I did not have a coolant bypass but So many others did not either.. They were not something that was that popular at the time and some people even debated wether they worked... FTR, I've had nothing but trouble from mine anyway... The valve keeps Sticking open and causing my truck to cool down below normal opp. temps... PITA in the winter... He warrantied the valve after I played Hel! getting to him...This pos does the same thing at times....

-Very glad that you seem to have 6 to 8 eyes and watch every gauge you have like 100% of the time, and that you supposedly caught the "Failed" dual cp3 controller box within seconds....! I guess I'm just not that perfect....Sorry....lol

-MP8 harness....Yes, when I heard that weird stumbling on the line RIGHT before I left, Yet is cleaned up and ran Perfectly normal the rest of the pass...I guess I could have let off but at that point, nothing showed to be wrong during the pass.... RP gauge would still have been 26K which was normal for me and many... Oh well... Again.. Not sure I'd have let off when everything seemed perfect...

-Carb cleaner?? Not sure I follow... I never had it off... Sent my rail and RV to Todd and recieved this one already modded and assembled.... First shot on cranking, it acted up... end of story...

-You missed it again... THEY WERE Sent to Don!! The Whole injector!! He made the new tips, installed, and supposedly tested them..... I installed and NO Worky correctly from Jump Street!! White smoke , sputtering , etc....

He then made the 2nd set of tips.... sent them to me... I installed them...Yes I know how and Jeff supervised... Same chit.....

No... I didn't send them back after that... THIS is when we realized I had the internal issue...EVERYONE thought that it was not injector realated at the time... Well...Guess WE were all wrong...

Again....I AM NOT BLAMING DON!!!! But it is what it is..... Now they are repaired...

-LOL "Like a Bull" LOL
Okay... I'm sorry I didn't have the experience.. I really am... but It IS what it IS!!
Still not sure of the real cause.. I'll be glad to take the blame and play the fool...Gotta learn sometime....

But FTR... Making lots of assumptions about me aren't you?? Like I just have NO regard for logic or have to treat something I own, spend lots of money and time on, and enjoy.... Simply not the case man... I've own over 40 cars / trucks and close to that number in motorcycles as well.. Done some wrenching on them too... Other then the R1 issue I posted about ( Totally Yamaha's fault ), this is totally unlike anyting I've ever experienced before....

Try to chill with the acusations about someone you don't know personally (other than what I post)....BTW.... How many folks here would be as honest and forthcoming with info both Good and Bad ?? Some call me crazy...Others enjoy it and learn from it.. Either way, I am who I am... Nothing more / Nothing less... At least I'm trying...


-Filters were given to me by a forum member here that is WAY more anal and LOVES to research stuff like this.... I guess valuing his knowledge / opinion was Wrong??
-Flow / Restriction... I'll have to check...Again, I trusted....
-I will have to check the "Order".... Good point and thank you!
-Lines?? Yes, I only had 3/8's line all the way up, as my orig. FASS only came with 3/8's... I had no clue back then..This was the first mod to my truck.. I didn't install...The guy who did is Dead now... RIP....Yes he was qualified...Former Garmon's employee..

- I now have 1/2" line all the way up to the Y spliter.. Then 3/8's to each cp3.........FTR... the 3/8's was never and issue before, so I can only assume 1/2" is better now...


- "Blaming the pump"..... Well after speaking with FASS about how I was instructed on plumbing in the regulator, "Burning up the pump" was a possibility... and YES, WE TESTED THE FLOW OF THE PUMP....We tried filling the 5 gal. jug with it... It was VERY slow to fill and seemed to be "Struggling".... I am 100% confident that this pump is NOT working properly now....

- After speaking with a forum member the Worked for FASS a long while ago about my track times / mph...He shared with me that he always suspected that there was NO Need to have more than 95 gph or esp. 150 gph to make my kind of HP.... SO!!! I took this Professional word for it......Should I have Not??????? Really???? He Worked for FASS....

- The misconceptions are the price I pay for being such a public poster about my issues... I guess I have to live with... No biggie... You don't think I'm used to BIG Misconceptions about me with my Job??? LOL
Oh Yeah..... A diesel forum is cake walk compared to that.... Thank God this is for fun though.... I actually enjoy having these discussions and debates... We ALL learn from them... Especially me!!

And if I forget to say later, THANK YOU for your concern... I know you mean well...!
 
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David,

1/2" to the Y then 3/8" to each pump is fine. How do you have your injector and cp3 return fuel plumbed?

Make sure you step your filters from course to fine...

Fyi...with a single modded pump I could make 650 hp with one setup using a walbro which is 60gph. After I switched to dual cp3's.....same set up sucked my walbro dry at 650. Thirsty thirsty pumps with lots of return fuel. 800hp was the wall of the oem filter housing...even empty. 850 was the limit of an old drawstraw style setup I had with a 150 Raptor Pump....but now the pump is happy again with a sump and a little more cleaned up and direct hose routing...to 1000hp.

If you way over pump it you can make up for bad restrictive piping/filters...or you can use a good flow plan and get away with a 150.

I love mp8 btw...still use mine for fine tuning...just way way dangerous above 50%. I actually helped develop their first more mild tune after noticing how crazy the ramp rate was....and eventually blowing off the return fuel line at the cheesy oem quick snap line...back in 2004ish.

Put your gauges where you can read them...all across the dash. Live with the airplane cockpit look...they are there for a reason in performance vehicles...not hard to train one eye to scan while the other watches where you are going. Especially tuning.

You high pressure fiascos are what did your injectors in over time...there might have been invisible damage doe that was not evident during inspection but reared its ugly head miles later.

Good luck this time.
 
Well it sure seemed to make pressure for having any kind of lift issue. David I'll give you credit for letting it hang out for all those to pound away at how it should be done at the same time patting themselves on the back or pimping their chit.....LMFAO...LOL

Now on the gauges, say you got a hell of a run on....or pull in my case and out of the corner of your eye you see something a little out of spec......would you let out of it.....:evil LOL

You'll get it...no doubt about it.
 
Joesixpack said:
Well it sure seemed to make pressure for having any kind of lift issue. David I'll give you credit for letting it hang out for all those to pound away at how it should be done at the same time patting themselves on the back or pimping their chit.....LMFAO...LOL

Now on the gauges, say you got a hell of a run on....or pull in my case and out of the corner of your eye you see something a little out of spec......would you let out of it.....:evil LOL

You'll get it...no doubt about it.
Click to expand...

That is the exact reason I don't run an EGT gauge on my Junker Drag Truck. If I'm making a great pass and I happened to notice 2200* Exhaust Gas Temp would I let up on the throttle? Nope! On my daily driver, totally different story, it has gauges and I do let off when it starts getting warm.
 
Joesixpack said:
Well it sure seemed to make pressure for having any kind of lift issue. David I'll give you credit for letting it hang out for all those to pound away at how it should be done at the same time patting themselves on the back or pimping their chit.....LMFAO...LOL

Now on the gauges, say you got a hell of a run on....or pull in my case and out of the corner of your eye you see something a little out of spec......would you let out of it.....:evil LOL

You'll get it...no doubt about it.
Click to expand...

Thank you Sir!
I've never had anything to hide and I'm not gonna start now..
Like I said, I don't mind discussion about things. Even if they are from mistakes I made...This is how I learn.. I never was good a learning from hearing it, I had to do it...

On to the gauges... Yes you are correct!! With me, there is no way I would let out if I had a great pass going or it was a close race.. This is exactly why I don't have an egt gauge...

Now if money allows and I can someday get used to the "air plane cockpit" look on my dash / pillar / etc... I'll get all the fancy gauges there are to get... But even then, I'd still find it hard to make myself look at them and not Enjoy my truck instead...

Big Blue24 said:
That is the exact reason I don't run an EGT gauge on my Junker Drag Truck. If I'm making a great pass and I happened to notice 2200* Exhaust Gas Temp would I let up on the throttle? Nope! On my daily driver, totally different story, it has gauges and I do let off when it starts getting warm.
Click to expand...

Agreed.


Well I do daily mine from time to time but not always.. And when I do I'm not Always WOT..lol

And I'm not saying that my motor can't be hurt by high EGT's but having the Monotherms really does kinda set the mind at ease a bit about it... And my head has oversized seats / peened...So thats a plus too...


Now if I was to "Work" my truck and did lots of towing, Then I could TOTALLY see having all the gauges... Lots of time to stare at them when only moving 55-65 mph... Not so when your above 100+...
 
Come on now....I tow at a 100! ;)

I have my handle on my a pillar too...srt8 handle with 4 mini cups attatched. All eye level....almost the same distance from the eye...easy to read. The less important stuff like trans and lp's are down low by my right knee. If I did it again I would use two of XLR8's billet mount pads for 6 or 8 total gauges. Group the important ones in the middle.
 
I've got 4 gauges on my pillar. Only time I look at them is when I'm bored on a road trip or I know I'm running low on fuel and can see the FP start bouncing. Otherwise I never even look at them. They are handy in helping diagnose stuff though.
 
People always ask me what the gauges said after a pass, and all I can think about is the time slip. Sorry but I get tunnel vision:doh:LOL
 
you should write a book, about modifing diesel pick ups and at the end it should say if this happens to you, sky diving is not for you.
sorry about your luck man
 
Just got my FASS pulled off and a loaner (thank u Mike) 150 gph Raptor pump put on...

My FASS is going back to them to be repaired and upgraded to a 220 gph pump... Bad thing is mine is so old that he said there is no warranty and that they don't even make my style anymore..

Running fairly good now.. :)
 
woow...220gph, i thought all u needed was a 150 or maybe a 165?!?! LOL
had too, you'll definatly like it better now.
 
joelc79 said:
woow...220gph, i thought all u needed was a 150 or maybe a 165?!?! LOL
had too, you'll definatly like it better now.
Click to expand...

Chris McCrary said:
That is alot of fuel.
Click to expand...

I know thats a lot of fuel but since I two filtration systems, I and the Fass guy think the more the better... But I asked , " if there is any reason not to vs. the 150gph, please let me know".

Can anyone here think of any reason not to go 220 vs 150.

Its only $25 difference.
 
BTW...


There is NO way to make this chit up but guess what??

Mike and I went to a late lunch once we finished swapping pumps, fixed a fuel leak on one of those POS Summit fittins, and double checking my supply presure and supply at WOT (13 at idle and down to about 8+ at WOT).

On our way back, I rolled off a light and was enjoying my smooth running good pulling truck and then all the sudden POW!!!!!!!!

I kid you Not... Finally after 3 different motor builds, I BROKE MY OPIE INPUT SHAFT!! ( standard size).

We are renaming my truck to "Truman"!!

I told mike that I literally feel like Jim Carey in the movie, " The Truman Show"

Like the whole world is just watching me and laughing. And the director just waits till I'm the slightest bit happy with my truck and the directs the scene for me to Immediately have another failure!! LOL


Mike got me towed back to the shop and we have it scheduled to be rebuilt tmrw. Or Thurs.

But Hey, I'm trying to focus on the Silver lining... At Least it broke like 2 miles from Garmons shop...


Can you belive it??
 
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