13mm p pumps

Hamilton Cams said:
This thread proves the problem with diesel forums. 99% of the people posting have only tried one product. They might have had good luck with the one product, but they can not speak intelligently about comparisons between products. There is only a few in this thread that can speak intelligently about numerous shops. Not trying to saying all of you don't have a correct opinion, but unless you have tried numerous pumps on the same engine, on the same dyno, your opinion is subjective and relative to your situation and not valid for most comparisons. In other words they don't count. Most people buy a name because they do not know all of the ins and outs of complex things like pumps, injectors or engines in general. There is not one person who can know everything about everything(even though there are two names on CompD that claim that) that is why you have to trust your builder.

All that to say, unless you are an educated consumer, you have a 80% of getting mediocre product, kind of like paying for Mercedes quality and getting Yugo seconds, or like paying for German (bosch) steel and getting Chinese "bosh" slag.

So that you are not buying into Testosterone(yes that hormone can help you choose incorrectly) and hype, here are a few places to start when asking about pumps. If you do not get answers to your liking, buy elsewhere.

What brand P&B's
Billet or regrind cam
what size injectors for flow test
what cc at varying rpm
Less important is how many cc's max. ( I know this is hard to believe, but I have seen people lie, people even use generic flow sheets that do not represent the pump you have paid for)

And might I add, it is not how many cc's the pump can potentially flow but where the cc's are injected relative to TDC and in what size window relative to Crank degrees.

You can send ten pumps to ten different builders, have the same flow at the same rpm (if the stars aligned) and have a 100hp spread across the different pumps. The pump builder and his IQ is the intangible.

I will not buy a pump from a company unless I can talk directly to the pump builder and am convinced he knows what side of a screwdriver to use. That way if you are not happy, you know who to cuss.
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someone on their :soap:?

trying to get into the pump market or something? or just beating your chest trying to show everyone how smart you are an beat some sense into their brain? despite what you may think zacypoo, there are a lot of people that buy these two companies pumps because the fact is "they're some of the best."

if you dont like the web and have something better to offer the public, then get it out there and prove everyone how good your stuff is. actions speak louder than words zac. you should know this by now.

why did you even post in this thread? thats what i really want to know.
 
Ya know Ryan, Zac never answered your question from back in December! hahaha
 
Not having a dog in this fight I will still say that Zach brings up some good points. I have a flow sheet from one of the mentioned companies(very well known) and it is just a file copy of a generic 13mm pump. Lift values didn't match, and pump was not even checked for rpm even though it says 4000 + rpm. Had they checked it on a stand, they would have found an error that was causing it to de-fuel at 3k. Fought that one for a year before sending it to a smaller shop that does a better job. I sent a brand new 887 pump to a big name shop and told them to set it for 500cc and 4k rpm. When it came back it was weaker than my 325cc pump so I sent it to a small shop and found that for $500 all the big shop did was install a #6 fuel plate. I paid a second time to have it done correctly by the small shop and got exactly what i was looking for. A certain degree of caution should be exercised when having work done.
 
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Isn't that why we are on online forums? Groups a bunch of individual experiences together of multiple different products so we can make an informed decision? The way I see it this thread worked perfectly, we have a bunch of guys running 13mm pumps from all sorts of different shops posting feedback.

Not sure why we got a rant out of it?
 
Lenahan, I posted because......(it's really greedy) I don't want people to buy four pumps before they get one that works. If you disagree with anything I have said, please set me straight. You need to roll up your jump to conclusuion mat, I was refering to Wade and Greg, I was not talking about any pump builders.

You stress my obligation to bless them that curse you. In spite of that fact, I hope you have a swell day.

And since you have been asking for so long as to what I did before I depended on diesels for my daily bread,I slept well, and I bought mediocre parts to support my hobby of diesel performance. Now I get to deal with folks like yourself all day long. :)
 
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lenahan05 said:
someone on their :soap:?

trying to get into the pump market or something? or just beating your chest trying to show everyone how smart you are an beat some sense into their brain? despite what you may think zacypoo, there are a lot of people that buy these two companies pumps because the fact is "they're some of the best."

if you dont like the web and have something better to offer the public, then get it out there and prove everyone how good your stuff is. actions speak louder than words zac. you should know this by now.

why did you even post in this thread? thats what i really want to know.
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It's a public forum. I'm almost certain he has the right to post where and what he wants, Mr. Competition street engine builder.
 
We all need a spot to meet up. I'll bring the tape measure and we can settle all this lol
 
I'm not here to look for what's better or not... I'm just inquiring to if anyone has any experience with scheid pumps. I have access to one as I do not need it this will be for a friends truck. Ag governor, 500cc-850cc, billet governor weights, same one haisley sells on their site..

INJECTION PUMP, P7100 WITH AG GOVERNOR, 13MM BARRELS AND PLUNGERS, SCHEID DIESEL Haisley Machine

Any issues with these pumps? Idle and starting Ease, defueling ,
I have ran into many problems with large shops and not gettin the quality you should, this is why I ask. Not bashing anyone. I Have personally dealt with DPE & CDS just not scheid.

Any input is appreciated.

-Clinton
 
shortbusdriver said:
wwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?
I always base all my pump mods off these guys.....
(scroll down to under the pic)

Cummins | Sound Diesel
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lol how have I never seen this before?! Get rid of your low fuel 13mm pumps, and trade up for this bad ass 12mm ;-)


"As of October 2010, Sound Diesel Performance has created a stock 12mm p7100 fuel pump with special mods, custom fuel plate, that has fuel output of over 1000cc. 1100cc to be exact. This is the first in the diesel industry. This fuel output out of a stock 12mm pump is unheard of. And we did it!"
 
CorneliusRox said:
lol how have I never seen this before?! Get rid of your low fuel 13mm pumps, and trade up for this bad ass 12mm ;-)


"As of October 2010, Sound Diesel Performance has created a stock 12mm p7100 fuel pump with special mods, custom fuel plate, that has fuel output of over 1000cc. 1100cc to be exact. This is the first in the diesel industry. This fuel output out of a stock 12mm pump is unheard of. And we did it!"
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That's on II's pump stand. A stock, un-modified 887 pump with a #6 plate puts out 500cc on their pump stand.
 
CorneliusRox said:
lol how have I never seen this before?! Get rid of your low fuel 13mm pumps, and trade up for this bad ass 12mm ;-)


"As of October 2010, Sound Diesel Performance has created a stock 12mm p7100 fuel pump with special mods, custom fuel plate, that has fuel output of over 1000cc. 1100cc to be exact. This is the first in the diesel industry. This fuel output out of a stock 12mm pump is unheard of. And we did it!"
Click to expand...

I've heard of that out of a 12mm before....at maybe 1,800rpm...how are you going to use that? Show me what the rates are at 4,000rpm!
 
12VRoush said:
I'm not here to look for what's better or not... I'm just inquiring to if anyone has any experience with scheid pumps. I have access to one as I do not need it this will be for a friends truck. Ag governor, 500cc-850cc, billet governor weights, same one haisley sells on their site..

INJECTION PUMP, P7100 WITH AG GOVERNOR, 13MM BARRELS AND PLUNGERS, SCHEID DIESEL Haisley Machine

Any issues with these pumps? Idle and starting Ease, defueling ,
I have ran into many problems with large shops and not gettin the quality you should, this is why I ask. Not bashing anyone. I Have personally dealt with DPE & CDS just not scheid.

Any input is appreciated.

-Clinton
Click to expand...

Being in the fueling business I have seen lots of pumps from other shops. Some pumps are good some are bad. Some may say mine suck and thats fine too. Scheid has been doing performance pumps for a long time and been in business for 30+yrs. Not saying 30+yrs will make a shop perfect but I'm sure you will be fine if you buy the pump. Lots of top competitors run there parts and you don't get there doing below average work. By no means am I cheerleading scheid I'm just saying I'm no hater.
 
01PPUMP said:
Being in the fueling business I have seen lots of pumps from other shops. Some pumps are good some are bad. Some may say mine suck and thats fine too. Scheid has been doing performance pumps for a long time and been in business for 30+yrs. Not saying 30+yrs will make a shop perfect but I'm sure you will be fine if you buy the pump. Lots of top competitors run there parts and you don't get there doing below average work. By no means am I cheerleading scheid I'm just saying I'm no hater.
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Pure class
 
Well right there shows a lot people, someone that can answer a question with class and be a competitor. Thanks Kevin.

But yes your are right, I just hate to see someone buy it with no receipts or flow sheets and it said to be this pump and not be.
 
12VRoush said:
I'm not here to look for what's better or not... I'm just inquiring to if anyone has any experience with scheid pumps. I have access to one as I do not need it this will be for a friends truck. Ag governor, 500cc-850cc, billet governor weights, same one haisley sells on their site..

INJECTION PUMP, P7100 WITH AG GOVERNOR, 13MM BARRELS AND PLUNGERS, SCHEID DIESEL Haisley Machine

Any issues with these pumps? Idle and starting Ease, defueling ,
I have ran into many problems with large shops and not gettin the quality you should, this is why I ask. Not bashing anyone. I Have personally dealt with DPE & CDS just not scheid.

Any input is appreciated.

-Clinton
Click to expand...

Depending on price, id say its well worth the money to buy a scheid pump.
 
It took working with guys in the R&D pump room at Mack and another shops pump room to cleans all the pure BS misinformation that plague's the interweb about pumps and injectors....
 
YOUNG GUNS15 said:
Isn't that why we are on online forums? Groups a bunch of individual experiences together of multiple different products so we can make an informed decision? The way I see it this thread worked perfectly, we have a bunch of guys running 13mm pumps from all sorts of different shops posting feedback.

Not sure why we got a rant out of it?
Click to expand...

You are 100% correct. I apologize if I came off like a bit of a prick, but my intention is to find a better way to relay information that is credible and quell that which is not.

Hear me out. If you have 10 guys with different 13mm pumps, and you get 10 accounts online, that will help you decide, right? Not so fast. I am saying that aaccounts do really matter because they are relative to the individual and are not pinned to an data to relate them to each other.

Accounts of different people

#1 " that thing is ape crazy.....Wow, Brand C rules"
#2 "Man I can spin my 13mm pump 6,000 rpm Brand F RoX and Brand y SUX!"
#3 " My brand X pump made 28 hp from 3,800 rpm to 4,700rpm, but lost 10hp at 2500rpm over my brand G pump"
#4 "My 13mm pump fuels so hard that I can black out an 8 lane highway, all the 16 year old girls I hang out with think I am Mr. Cool Cat Daddio"
#5 "My 13mm pump Fuels so hard my Flat bill hat fell off"
#6 " My 13mm pump with port closure at 3.9mm made 13hp less than it did at 4.2mm with a stock 913 cam"
#6 "I don't have a 13mm pump, but I am a bada$$ and I brag about my competition street engines, did I mention I am a bada$$, Zacypoo why do you even post :soap: I dodn't want to pass along any real information because I don't really do anything but I want to sidetrack anybody really trying to help others, but did I mention I am a bada$$.
#7 When I changed port closure from 3.95 to 4.6 it shortened my duration of injection at 16mm of rack travel by 5 degrees, made the thing come alive! Netted me 46hp"
#8 "With the same engine, the same dyno, the same day Brand X pump made 36hp more than brand K, Port closure was at 4.3mm on both but I had 181dv and 024 on the other"
#9 "I normally drive a minivan, but I saved enough money to buy the cheapest 13mm I could buy. It says Botch which is close enough for me. It fuels so hard it blew my HX35 to pieces. It is the best 13mm pump ever."
#10 " I have data on 4, 13mm pumps on the same engine with graphs that overlay and I have EGT data on all of them."


Can you see how the relevance of each testimonial varies? They all are contributing, but not all of the data is relative, and the only people that can really tell you who to use are the people that have used several pumps, and can speak with certainty about what the best attribute on each one. If you are used to driving a Mini-van your 13mm will be considered the best thing since flat-bills even though it is really crappy. If you are like some, you just throw poo because that is all you know.

This scenario plays out in all forms of forums, with all kinds of products. It is up to you to discern what makes one better than the other. Think back to 8th grade science, you have to have a control, and it helps if you change one variable at a time. If you change 10 variables at a time, your data is not valid. Not trying to upset people but in terms of research, that is the case.

That is what I meant when I said most data did not matter. I was not trying to suggest I know all. With all certainty, I can tell you that is not the case.
 
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