Allison swap questions.

Cowboys4Christ said:
T-MAN

Thanks again for your insight and information. It is a big help. I prefer not to run into a swap project like this blind. So far there has been lots of useful information presented and that leaves a lot to digest. I can see why a c3 oiler is a good thing to have. Is there one on the market that uses oil that has been cooled? Or do they all use heated oil? Either way, just getting more oil to it should be a help.

I hear you on the slotted clutches and can see the slots helping to.clear the oil out so the clutches can grab quicker. I also understand that the non-sloted clutches would, or atleast should have more hold power from more surface friction.

I also understand what you are saying about switch on the fly tunes messing with the Allison since it is always learning. Would turning that off give a higher chance of catastrophic damage? If it was tuned perfect, it should work.

No worries about your sentence structure. Mine is far from perfect as well. English was definitely not my strong subject.

Thanks again for the information.
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Im not sure on the oiling, i fixed my clutch issues with what i had listed above, last time the trans was out was for another broken p2, i went full billet and i re used all the clutches that were in there... was probably 50 passes or so on it. the broken p2 could have been from horsepower or tuning, that poor trans took a beating getting dialed in and tied up quite a few times tryin to lower shift times.. im sure there are better parts available today then there was back then, if this trans fails again ill be sure to but up the failed part and all clutches.

If you go with the gm guys and run there operating system your stuck with the 8.1 unless they figured out something with a tps for the other operating systems. i wasn't aware my files didn't adapt separately since clutch fill can be adjusted separately between tow haul and normal..... But i don't know everything.... I will say after the swap is running correctly you will love it, i know i love mine
 
T-MAN,

It sounds like you got your setup dialed in right. If not, it would be dead long ago!

I am going to be doing billet in, out, and intermediate shafts, as well as the billet C2 Hub. Since I do not plan on doing much, if any boosted launches drag racing, do you think I would need the P2 carrier? The thought of having a updated 6 gear billet carrier vs stock 4 gear carrier is appealing.

Who, in your opinion, has a good clutch setup from C1 through C5? I want to beef them all up.

Yea, if I go GM I need to use the 8.1L tcm. That does allow me to have tap shift. That feature would be nice. Does destroked use the 8.1 system?

The easy auto swap for me would be the 4R100, it can be built to handle the hp I want, shifts relatively fast. But, your stuck with 4 gears DD and towing. I guess things could be worse.

I am sure I will love it when its all in and working like it needs to.

Thanks again for your help and the information.
 
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JWhite said:
From memory, has all Alto G3 packs, transgo jr kit and Mike's trim springs & shift valve springs, red spring in the regulator and modded converter valve. We didn't put any billet parts in it.

You can mod the case to run the PTO covers if you'd like, but last I knew Evan started to build the c3 oiler kits when he took over Inglewood. The theory seems make sense on the PTO covers but under abuse they've proven ineffective
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Appreciate the reply, I'll be adding the billet parts myself. I'll probably get in touch with you once for a few questions when the time comes if you don't mind.
 
thatguy69 said:
Appreciate the reply, I'll be adding the billet parts myself. I'll probably get in touch with you once for a few questions when the time comes if you don't mind.
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Do you plan on doing a info thread on how things go for you with the swap? The more info we get on forums, the better and easier it is for the next guy doing the same thing.
 
Cowboys4Christ said:
T-MAN,

It sounds like you got your setup dialed in right. If not, it would be dead long ago!

I am going to be doing billet in, out, and intermediate shafts, as well as the billet C2 Hub. Since I do not plan on doing much, if any boosted launches drag racing, do you think I would need the P2 carrier? The thought of having a updated 6 gear billet carrier vs stock 4 gear carrier is appealing.

Who, in your opinion, has a good clutch setup from C1 through C5? I want to beef them all up.

Yea, if I go GM I need to use the 8.1L tcm. That does allow me to have tap shift. That feature would be nice. Does destroked use the 8.1 system?

The easy auto swap for me would be the 4R100, it can be built to handle the hp I want, shifts relatively fast. But, your stuck with 4 gears DD and towing. I guess things could be worse.

I am sure I will love it when its all in and working like it needs to.

Thanks again for your help and the information.
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What do you plan on using for a tps signal? i dont know what tcm destroked uses but i know cummins /allison uses there medium duty tcm thats not easily modified.
was there ever a 1000 series allison behind the international 444t ?
 
T-MAN said:
What do you plan on using for a tps signal? i dont know what tcm destroked uses but i know cummins /allison uses there medium duty tcm thats not easily modified.
was there ever a 1000 series allison behind the international 444t ?
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I plan/hope to use the factory 7.3 TPS. It has the right volt spread needed.

As far as I know there was never a 1000 series behind the T444E. Now they did have the at545, and the 3060, a 3000 series allison. The parts I have came from a T444E that had a 3060 allison behind it.
 
T-MAN said:
If you go with the gm guys and run there operating system your stuck with the 8.1 unless they figured out something with a tps for the other operating systems. i wasn't aware my files didn't adapt separately since clutch fill can be adjusted separately between tow haul and normal..... But i don't know everything.... I will say after the swap is running correctly you will love it, i know i love mine
Click to expand...

You guys had mentioned that this tuner likes to use the MD TCM and most of those operating systems stayed in TH mode all the time. If you have separate adapt tables then those who want to use a lower HP tune should keep it separate from a higher HP
 
Cowboys4Christ said:
I plan/hope to use the factory 7.3 TPS. It has the right volt spread needed.

As far as I know there was never a 1000 series behind the T444E. Now they did have the at545, and the 3060, a 3000 series allison. The parts I have came from a T444E that had a 3060 allison behind it.
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International built some MD trucks that had a DT466/ Allison 1000 combo
 
They make a 4 pinion billet insert p2 planet. most of the billet parts i recommended are more of a safety net, allison shafts are tough and so are the internals. Just for an example..... if your tuning was perfect and you had a tight converter and you unlocked on the shifts i think you would be helping the trans live. when we started tuning mine there were no locked shifts until we had it shifting good, Then we started with locked shifts, i broke 2 p2 planets along the way. I just looked at my shift timing and its asking for like .150 give or take... doesn't leave much room for Error, on a high horsepower truck i would say the damage will be done dialing it in...the operating system jason uses pretty much mirrors a gm truck but with analog or pwm throttle input options
 
JWhite said:
International built some MD trucks that had a DT466/ Allison 1000 combo
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were these 5 or 6 speeds? i wonder if efi supports the tcm? maybe he could have that talk to his ecm on the truck?
I have seen some bus cummins allison tcm files that efi live supports...

nevermind.... speed read 466 not 444 smh
 
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JWhite said:
You guys had mentioned that this tuner likes to use the MD TCM and most of those operating systems stayed in TH mode all the time. If you have separate adapt tables then those who want to use a lower HP tune should keep it separate from a higher HP
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Jason said standard shift/towhaul shift is functional on the medium duty tcm he utilizes
 
Cowboys4Christ said:
Do you plan on doing a info thread on how things go for you with the swap? The more info we get on forums, the better and easier it is for the next guy doing the same thing.
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I wouldn't mind it, I just don't like to because I don't know what I'm doing since I've never done one before. I don't like spreading bs if I don't have too for the next guy to sort through. Maybe once I get it up and running with the bugs figured out I'll post back that way there is better info for all and less to sort through. Jason said the ford TPS on my 08 fuel pedal is a good TPS input for the MD TCM as long as there's no slop in the cable driving the ppump
 
T-MAN said:
were these 5 or 6 speeds? i wonder if efi supports the tcm? maybe he could have that talk to his ecm on the truck?
I have seen some bus cummins allison tcm files that efi live supports...

nevermind.... speed read 466 not 444 smh
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The ones I worked on were 5 speeds, but I'm going to stick my neck out and ASSUME International did the same setups with 6spd. And yes, they were DT466
 
JWhite said:
You guys had mentioned that this tuner likes to use the MD TCM and most of those operating systems stayed in TH mode all the time. If you have separate adapt tables then those who want to use a lower HP tune should keep it separate from a higher HP
Click to expand...

I could see this concept working very well. I am glad you mentioned it. I am assuming that tap shift goes off whether your in normal mode or TH mode?
 
T-MAN said:
They make a 4 pinion billet insert p2 planet. most of the billet parts i recommended are more of a safety net, allison shafts are tough and so are the internals. Just for an example..... if your tuning was perfect and you had a tight converter and you unlocked on the shifts i think you would be helping the trans live. when we started tuning mine there were no locked shifts until we had it shifting good, Then we started with locked shifts, i broke 2 p2 planets along the way. I just looked at my shift timing and its asking for like .150 give or take... doesn't leave much room for Error, on a high horsepower truck i would say the damage will be done dialing it in...the operating system jason uses pretty much mirrors a gm truck but with analog or pwm throttle input options
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Sounds good. Thanks again for the information. I did find a 6 pinoin p2 planetary. Them things are not cheap!!! for the p2, c2 and modded sun gear to work with the c2, it was 1900 and some change!!

When you say a tight TC, would 1400 or 1500 rpm stall fall under that category? I have thought about trying a tight TC and unlocking it for shifts. But being able to keep it locked I feel would be better overall.

The saying goes, you got to pay to play.
 
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thatguy69 said:
I wouldn't mind it, I just don't like to because I don't know what I'm doing since I've never done one before. I don't like spreading bs if I don't have too for the next guy to sort through. Maybe once I get it up and running with the bugs figured out I'll post back that way there is better info for all and less to sort through. Jason said the ford TPS on my 08 fuel pedal is a good TPS input for the MD TCM as long as there's no slop in the cable driving the ppump
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I agree, get thing going first, then put down the details on how it was done, and what was needed to do it.

Yes the ford TPS should work just fine. Even my 97 one should work.
 
Cowboys4Christ said:
I could see this concept working very well. I am glad you mentioned it. I am assuming that tap shift goes off whether your in normal mode or TH mode?
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On the GM side, it works in both modes. You have to pull the shifter down into "M" to utilize the tapshift. Now the retrofit tapshift setups for the 5spd you don't have to
 
T-MAN

What model year is your transmission? I am guessing it is pre 2010?

Do you also drive your pickup on the street?

Thanks!
 
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