New engine build Scania DC1601 for our semi truckpuller.

RockinRam96 said:
What I've been told from sim pretty reputable people, the 3406E, C15 and C18 use the same block, same head between the C15 and C18. The crankshaft and cylinder liners are the only difference between the 3 motor models.
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You are correct. Block/head/rods are the same as C15. Crank/liners/pistons are the only difference other than typical cam and injectors.

SmokinCAT said:
Those engines would not be reliable at the rpm they turn if they were using the C18 crank due to the rod to stroke ratio as tall boy mentioned above.
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C18's make good HP but do not like 3000 RPM. That's how I ended up with C18 pistons/liners/crank. Made two dyno runs and bent all 6 rods so he went back to a 16L crank. c15/16's like the RPM better, 18's have too much dwell time.
 
Well it makes since that a C18 crank wouldn't like the RPM. Longer stroke motors never like more RPM.

How do you compensate for compression with a C15/16 crank compared to the C18 crank. Because your going to change the compression ratio greatly using a 16L crank and C18 pistons and liners, right?
 
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Cyclone has been using custom aluminum pistons, they can pretty much do what ever they want, the only thing cat they are using in the rotating assembly is the crank.
 
So conclusion could be that the C18 in it’s original format is not the ideal CAT power house al do on paper it looks better than a C15 for example.

Problem in main land Europe is that we are not very CAT minded as it comes to truck use but we have plenty of C12 and C18 running in construction and industrial and propulsion applications bust the C15 is harder to find.

The US semi pulling trucks still interest me and it looks like top class runs unlimited RPM and water injection?

Also in Europe there is a bad thing happening for the future as in France we already past the point that everything that smokes on track is not welcome any more so no more diesel on the pulling track.
For us there is still the option to reduce engine power to 1500Hp by changing injectors and produce no smoke and step up Hp with water methanol injection but for now this is not allowed to use water/meth injection but I’m willing to start a pilot project on that’s part if the pulling organisation let me compete with the new build torpedo Scania V8 green style.
 
tall boy said:
@ Lieffi. How is Herlevi doing as he was not very competitive last time and will he be in Made this year?
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I've been on a holiday in Thailand, don't know anything. I saw them before they left to Holland and they said they had not tested at all and had no low range in transmission so the gearing was maybe too fast with those big tires. I think they now know what changes to do.

Those early Sisus with C18 had some problems with cracking blocks but I heard they got some updated block to latest trucks produced. They were just rumours, cant be sure.

Shouldnt the dwell time at tdc be shorter with longer stroke? That should be a good thing, I think the problem is somewhere else.
 
Yesterday we did the first run with the Zandbergen race truck with the Scania 13L XPI engine.
Still a lot of work to do on the truck and no time left to dyno test it all so we have to find the Hp on the Brands Hatch race track and use the data logger to get some feedback.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u7eOv_rkW8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u7eOv_rkW8[/ame]
 
tall boy said:
Also in Europe there is a bad thing happening for the future as in France we already past the point that everything that smokes on track is not welcome any more so no more diesel on the pulling track.
For us there is still the option to reduce engine power to 1500Hp by changing injectors and produce no smoke and step up Hp with water methanol injection but for now this is not allowed to use water/meth injection but I’m willing to start a pilot project on that’s part if the pulling organisation let me compete with the new build torpedo Scania V8 green style.
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Is that true ? Earlier frogs didn't care about smoke even in truck racing.

If we are getting 1200 hp without smoke from ancient 10 liter mechanical Cummins then you should get close to 2000 hp from modern electronic controlled engine.

I don't like water meth, diesels should run on diesel, nothing else.
 
@ Leiffi I love the way you think, maybe you could give me a budget so I can try making 2000Hp out of a 15.6L engine running single stage turbocharger?

Had some more fun today with the Scania Race truck. Found some more low end power runnig 2250Bar fuel pressure. :bigsmile:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9a0Ogl_sQ4&list=UU_jjKaFaf1oxSijxIhaMgIA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9a0Ogl_sQ4&list=UU_jjKaFaf1oxSijxIhaMgIA[/ame]
 
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@ Leiffi don’t try to be stupid. There are load of insane numbers on engine performance but is it the real thing as it excites people driving loads of commercial stuff.

The message still is can we continuo making smoke or do we start thinking what will be in the future and better be prepared if we want to do the same thing on the track.

I think it will not be long before we know the air fuel ratio on the Euro5/6 XPI engine but it will takes some time before we optimise the engine as we do not have a race event every weekend.
Also the internal waste gated turbochargers runs it self of the chart above 2100RPM only boosting the turbine drive pressure so I’m hoping with bigger lower inertia turbo like the S400SX3 and external waste gate controlled by the ECU to get some better results but time will tell on that part. For semi truck pulling this works but they run bigger charges and smaller RPM range so will this be copy paste?

Last thing to do is line up all data channels on the AIM data logger and go to work during the practice sessions on the Brands Hatch racetrack on Friday

Grotefoto-CRIMDIN7.jpg
 
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tall boy said:
@ Leiffi don’t try to be stupid. There are load of insane numbers on engine performance but is it the real thing as it excites people driving loads of commercial stuff.
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So how much power you make now ? Your ECU made 2500 hp in USA with 18 liters, only for 15 seconds though before it exploded. Our 1200 hp L10 is real, at 2500 rpm. Volvo D12 made 1020 hp with 80mm Hx 60 last week, no smoke at all, no factory support to tune stock ECU.
 
Leiffi said:
So how much power you make now ? Your ECU made 2500 hp in USA with 18 liters, only for 15 seconds though before it exploded. Our 1200 hp L10 is real, at 2500 rpm. Volvo D12 made 1020 hp with 80mm Hx 60 last week, no smoke at all, no factory support to tune stock ECU.
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Your ECU made 2500 hp in USA with 18 liters, only for 15 seconds though before it exploded??? Where did you get this from? Sure no support from my side on this one otherwise I should know about this.

As for numbers on your stuff. Dyno sheet please and movie of the run! If it’s not on YouTube it’s not true. LOL.
:nopics:
 
tall boy said:
Your ECU made 2500 hp in USA with 18 liters, only for 15 seconds though before it exploded??? Where did you get this from? Sure no support from my side on this one otherwise I should know about this.

As for numbers on your stuff. Dyno sheet please and movie of the run! If it’s not on YouTube it’s not true. LOL.
:nopics:
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Oh, somehow I thought it was yours, there was some talk about it here.

Attached 1096 hp dyno sheet of L10 race engine, 2600 rpm, 3,5 bar, I don't have the sheet of the highest run that was 1156 with minor boost leak.

Volvo dynoing was made at Maha rolling road so it needed some tricks to get some numbers above 850 hp, not very valid numbers.
 

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The 15.6L V8 Scania with the OE injectors run without smoke as well but we never dyno it on full RPM as the dyno was limited to 25.000Nm @ the wheels only able to run it up to 2,5bar boost and we did not have the wheel speed needed to make more power so we did not go past 950Kw on the wheels @ 2100Rpm.

Dyno overload.
[ame=www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY2GYQG4k2Y"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY2GYQG4k2Y[/ame]

[ame=www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsFssYy0Bn4"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsFssYy0Bn4[/ame]
 
Leiffi said:
Oh, somehow I thought it was yours, there was some talk about it here.

Attached 1096 hp dyno sheet of L10 race engine, 2600 rpm, 3,5 bar, I don't have the sheet of the highest run that was 1156 with minor boost leak.

Volvo dynoing was made at Maha rolling road so it needed some tricks to get some numbers above 850 hp, not very valid numbers.
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Can you post a dyno sheet that can be read? This can be from any engine! Name customer date type of engine and so on will help a lot. Things like this drive me nuts making a claim on performance numbers of there set-up. Best way to find out is to dyno the engine before we start working on it discovering they have been ripped off. We call this happy Hp dyno sessions if there is a dyno printout that is.. after some time you know things don’t line up. :umno:

Grotefoto-IDTDWNJH.jpg
 
tall boy said:
Yesterday I had a great conversation with one of my customers from the US about engines with pump injectors.
They had there 18L 6 line on the dyno with a 5” Prostock turbo making a lot more boost than we do pumping out 2300Hp @ 3000RPM and about 5385Nm.
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This is what I was talking about.
 
tall boy said:
Can you post a dyno sheet that can be read?[/IMG]
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No, it's in finnish and we know what engine it was, enough for us. It's a military engine dyno, normally people don't get their engines there.

Where's your dyno sheets ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcR5MnzDjO8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iihkIAPLNFM

Same type of engine, made about 700 hp before turbo spooled. Yes, it's smoky at low rpm. Drove a couple of races with that truck, in last start fuel was maxed because we didn't care if they disqualify us, boost gauge max was 4.3 bar, needle went way over that, it was turning over 3000 rpm I think, lasted 5 laps then dropped a valve because of single springs on intake side.
 
Leiffi said:
No, it's in finnish and we know what engine it was, enough for us. It's a military engine dyno, normally people don't get their engines there.

Where's your dyno sheets ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcR5MnzDjO8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iihkIAPLNFM

Same type of engine, made about 700 hp before turbo spooled. Yes, it's smoky at low rpm. Drove a couple of races with that truck, in last start fuel was maxed because we didn't care if they disqualify us, boost gauge max was 4.3 bar, needle went way over that, it was turning over 3000 rpm I think, lasted 5 laps then dropped a valve because of single springs on intake side.
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Leiffi no smoke you say, please post the real thing with no smoke and Hp on display.
Better end this conversation this is going no where. Fuel is pored in with a garden hose.:st:
 
tall boy said:
Leiffi no smoke you say, please post the real thing with no smoke and Hp on display.
Better end this conversation this is going no where. Fuel is pored in with a garden hose.:st:
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Mechanical Cummins is hard to get smokeless before turbo spools up but they are hard to get smoking at full boost because timing advances the more you give it fuel.

Your dyno sheets please. Datalogs mean nothing if you don't compare them with real numbers.

And what was that US customer ? BS numbers also ?
 
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