Pinion Depth

GOT-Torque said:
Yep, I added a snubber to both my D80 and D60.

Jantz Engineering makes a nice one.
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What about pinion deflection? Has any one tried to run some type of 14bolt/ 9inch D80 hybrid, so you could incorporate the 14bolt/9inch pinion bearing support into the D80?
 
Supershafts said:
Yes, unless it's banana oil.
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I was on board with you for a lot of what you have said, but the friction (and thus torque needed to overcome standing friction) is vastly different with a friction modifier applied to the surfaces, even if it's just water.

Sent from my Not So Smartphone
 
Supershafts said:
Yes, unless it's banana oil.
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I feel like you're trolling. You'll have to do some serious explaining with lots of data to prove this otherwise I'm calling bs. I've never read a manual or talked with anyone "in the know" that's said anything other soaking everything in the gear oil the differential will be using.

You know what uses banana oil? Licorice. Licorice uses banana oil for packing purposes. Differentials do not.
 
Add gear oil to bearings and it causes drag, you don't check preload with thick drag causing oils. You can do as you wish, you don't have to listen to anything im telling you
 
tornado112 said:
What about pinion deflection? Has any one tried to run some type of 14bolt/ 9inch D80 hybrid, so you could incorporate the 14bolt/9inch pinion bearing support into the D80?
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The 14t and 9" are horrible designs, they have to have those bearing supports NOT because it was a good idea but, because the of the pin location.
Because of those supports they are weak in other areas and have other issues.
Pin deflection isn't the problem here. It's at the carrier.
 
Supershafts said:
Add gear oil to bearings and it causes drag, you don't check preload with thick drag causing oils. You can do as you wish, you don't have to listen to anything im telling you
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Next differential I rebuild I'll use the lightest oil I can find and then redo it soaked in 250W. I'll record and post the pinion preload difference with identical shimming. You have me all sorts of curious now...

Your comment about the 14B and 9" are mind blowing. I'm not sure how to respond on that honestly.

So here's a question instead: was there a compromise made for the pin location to be where it is? Or are you saying that both axles were very poorly designed and there isn't a benefit to how they're done? Competition use has both axles as the kings of their own right.....
 
Competition use, the 9" had to be all kinds of modified to live... im not sure how you see that as superior. And when you start making power they only live with a spool, add any kind of LS device and because of the inferior, dare i say sh!t design they all fail.
The 14t shares the same problem.
. I don't have to do all kinds of extra things for a 60 to live with more than 1200hp, i'll need everything that isn't a factory 9" piece for it to survive some, and have to go to 9.75 ring design if i don't want to see it every couple months. A normal non 3rd bearing design doesn't need anything but correct set up, maybe just one billet cap (12b, 10B, 8.75). The 9" needs the huge aftermarket housing with the 3.8 bearing, totally different housing, pin support, gears, bearings.... and STILL can not live with anything but a spool...

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Everyone has this insane belief that they have that 3rd bearing for EXTRA strength... Not so... remove the 3rd bearing, or if it the 3rd bearing fails you'll break the housing with 250hp and less. . (as seen below, but with hp and when it breaks you lose your shaft and trans, and if you have real power you kill the thrust bearing in the motor) (it's a wonderful design, for lazy people that can't set a diff without spanners and make them live)
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You'll also find people tell you that the crush collar is weak and the shim adds strength... yeah well those are people that have no idea how a diff works and shouldn't be touching it.... YET they make people believe the 9" and 14t are GREAT designs, they aren't. They are simply lazy. And i have other diff builders that agree. .
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They both have the pin in the wrong location for helping power, they both lose much needed room for the 3rd bearing to hold the pin in place so it doesn't just grenade pulling out of your driveway, which ruins the ability to run a LS with power.

Oddly enough the people that make those stupid comments are looked up to, boggles the mind. The only benefit a 9" has is ratio changes by as little as 1
.

. This is the wonderful all powerful 9", it broke, but rather than running a 12b, dana 60 or other non 3rd bearing style pos and losing a R&P and needing to drop another $500 this guy needs a shaft and trans too, maybe even a motor if he doesn't check his end play, if he noted the end play when building it. .so he's at atleast 1200 without the shaft, trans and possibly motor...

Oddly though people THINK this is a awesome design, and the best thing to have....
But i can *bdh* all year. .

.
ame]
...
 
I certainly can't argue you about a stock 9" weak design/materials. I've seen pinion supports torn out of the 3rd with a stock Jeep 242ci I6 on only 35's. Once built aftermarket however, their lightweight, ease of working on (you call them lazy which I can agree with), aftermarket support, and versatility make them a superior axle. So while in stock form they're a wet noodle under any sort of torque, once built they're incredible. You can see this in the Ultra 4 series as they're almost entirely the only differential used.

The 14 bolt is a different story, it's an incredibly strong axle and the only failures I've ever seen are the actual tubes deforming since GM used any tube that would fit without any sort of quality control on consistent wall thickness and bearings failing from the wrong oil used. Otherwise I'm not sure what failures you see, but we used solely the 14 bolt and the D80 under all of our trucks, and nearly all big trucks I build use them front and rear.
 
Unfortunately i forgot to take the pics of all the 14t i've built after their explosive demise....they have far more issues than bearings, the ends are weak, they also have no room for adequate LS either with POWER....but i'll make sure i do take those pictures from here on out. I have had them in the shop where they destroyed themselves and become unusable at all.

Any design putting the pin that low on the ring is sh!t for performance. and im not changing your mind or anyone else's, to many people talking sh!t have convinced you all otherwise... but when testing and using dynos for the tool they are you'll get your proof.

As for the 9" with plenty of aftermarket redesign they become better.... not great, they still rob power... They Still break even after all that, after spending 3x more than a D-60 and the need for special housings to house non 9" ANYTHING and it still robs more power....how do you consider that in ANY world good.. it's far from it.

However show me a 9" that lives with ANY LS type diff... they do not, becuase it is a sh!t design.


The 2 diffs you like are far from the best in performance and far from the best in strength. But the 9" and 14t are both easy.
 
TheBigNasty said:
Love to hear what diffs are worthwhile designs, in your opinion.
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Depends on what you want to do.

For what this discussion is about Dana 80, 130 or AAM 11.5, 12.8, Meritor 100.

Im not a fan of any design that needs a 3rd bearing to support the pinion from breaking.


Maybe I came off as too much a smart azz to warrant a response? Honestly wondering what your pick for a diff is.
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Just busy, nothing personal.

.
 
Supershafts said:
Depends on what you want to do.

For what this discussion is about Dana 80, 130 or AAM 11.5, 12.8, Meritor 100.

Im not a fan of any design that needs a 3rd bearing to support the pinion from breaking.




Just busy, nothing personal.

.
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What is an alternative that will meet or exceed the power capacity of 3 bearing units?

Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk
 
nwpadmax said:
Yet that 3rd bearing, if added to any of the axles mentioned above, would only help them.
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And that is where you're wrong... The axles above don't have a piss poor design and suffer from major deflection issues ...Like the 3rd bearing diffs suffer from... that bearing isn't there as a addition, without it you won't get far from a driveway with no power.

When you add that stupid design you LOSE room to hold power at the carrier.

Which is why all those 3rd bearing diffs can't stay together without a spool.

biggy238 said:
What is an alternative that will meet or exceed the power capacity of 3 bearing units?

Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Show me a 3 bearing design that lives with power?

The 9 and 14t all have kits for the load bolt they need to stay together.
Once they get to what i consider good street power they don't have any LS options that live other than a spool...
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So how would one consider any of that good?!?!?

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I prefer not to follow that of misguided misinformation.

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Supershafts said:
And that is where you're wrong... The axles above don't have a piss poor design and suffer from major deflection issues ...Like the 3rd bearing diffs suffer from... that bearing isn't there as a addition, without it you won't get far from a driveway with no power.

When you add that stupid design you LOSE room to hold power at the carrier.

Which is why all those 3rd bearing diffs can't stay together without a spool.



Show me a 3 bearing design that lives with power?

The 9 and 14t all have kits for the load bolt they need to stay together.
Once they get to what i consider good street power they don't have any LS options that live other than a spool...
.
So how would one consider any of that good?!?!?

.
I prefer not to follow that of misguided misinformation.

.
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Um, EVERY big truck rear runs a third bearing. So your saying Eaton and Rockwell don't know what they are doing? Those rears live well into 2000 hp with no spool. Still a poor design? I think if they had major issues they would be addressed way before this.
 
DISTURBED said:
Um, EVERY big truck rear runs a third bearing. So your saying Eaton and Rockwell don't know what they are doing? Those rears live well into 2000 hp with no spool. Still a poor design? I think if they had major issues they would be addressed way before this.
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My neighbor runs custom made billet chunks in his tractor cause the factory cast ones won't hold up. Haha I'll see if I still have some pics.
 
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