Trouble in the Green Dealer Camp

KUBOTA :kick:

not to get off track but what ever happened to the local dealers and there toy tractor inventory? as a kid I loved going to the local dealer and checking out all the toy tractors/equipment but now you cant find anything! Ive been surfing Ebay for some precision collectors toys but its just not the same. Heck even TSC had a whole isle of stuff now you will just find john deere match-box ones.. :poke:

Ian
 
Well, they're wrong...Sorry, that's as plain as I can put it.

Challenger get's all kind of special treatment, like getting to call it their own "Challenger" engine, and getting special features in the cab, etc. But CAT Corp, does not own Sisu Diesel. The only markings on the engine that say AGCO, is a sticker on the air inlet heater block...and it probably says Challenger on a Challenger tractor, and MF on a Massey.


Let me say this...think about it...CAT already owns Perkins, so between those entities, they make engines from about 20hp, to 4000hp...Sisu builds engines from about 35hp, to 450hp...in only 6 models (3.3L, 4.4L, 4.9L, 6.6L, 7.4L, and 8.4L) CAT and Perkins already have proven engine designs in those classes. Also, Sisu Diesel is the ONLY STRICTLY off-road engine builder in the world. They do not build anything for on-highway applications...therefore, they use a structural engine block, that is very heavy...not good for freight haulers;)

Also, CAT does NOT own the Challenger tractors, not even the rubber track units. AGCO bought the MT700 and MT800 tractors, and production facilities from CAT, and then developed the MT900 4wd tractor on their own! CAT dealers HAD to sign a dealer agreement from AGCO Corp to become a Challenger dealer.


I love dispelling CAT and Challenger rumors...it is a retarded thing for AGCO to have done by creating a whole new brand around about 18 dealers...and they realize this. Challenger products from 2003-2004 are still sitting at the factory...most are being painted other colors now, and being sold at large discounts. For example, last year Challenger had only retailed 21 combines...this year, the number has dropped to 11 (both year to date as of about 10/1/2007;)) In the same time frame, Gleaner and Massey Ferguson combine sales are up about 15%. (Gleaner from 135 to 158, and MF from about 60-85ish)

Whoops...sorry about the long post:p
Chris
 
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IC-Smoke said:
KUBOTA :kick:

not to get off track but what ever happened to the local dealers and there toy tractor inventory? as a kid I loved going to the local dealer and checking out all the toy tractors/equipment but now you cant find anything! Ive been surfing Ebay for some precision collectors toys but its just not the same. Heck even TSC had a whole isle of stuff now you will just find john deere match-box ones.. :poke:

Ian

We have toys...but they are not as big a seller as they were 5 years ago. People's disposable income is drying up fast, and toy prices are going up as well. I'd say we sell about $20K year in toys though!

I'm with you though...you used to be able to go anywhere an buy toys!
Chris
 
Tractors

Having lived in the Mississippi Delta for a majority of my life where farming "king" cotton, 'beans, corn, rice, milo, winter wheat, IS LIFE by itself...

driving down the Delta highways & back roads.... when you see equipment in the field the vast majority (50 h.p. and up) is Case/International with JD in a close second.

Kubota, JD, Case/Int, MF make up the small tractor line up on the home/hobby/hunting camp usage (50 H.P. and below).

As for AGCO..... there is ONLY one dealer I am aware of there in the Delta that has been in the same location, just south of Carey, MS for as long as I have been alive (32 years). It's burned to ground twice, nearly blown away by a tornado, gone bankrupt several times because there is just no business, and probably changed hands more times than you can count. To the best of my knowledge it is still there. In the '80s there were several Glenear combines lurking around but they have since been replaced by RED and GREEN and even a few YELLOW machines. CLAAS Commanders even made a breif stint. No one seemed to like those because repair manuals were only availabe written in German and parts were hard to come by.


On a personal note......... I never saw a John Deere that COULD NOT BE OUT-DONE by an International. The absolute, toughest tractor I ever operated was a '70s 1066 Turbo IH with duals and a bulldozer blade. With that turbo spooled up, there was not a tree (or it's root system) that was safe from that machine. I must report (sadly) that it died 3-5 years ago while running a P.T.O. driven irrigation well. Late one afternoon, it slung a rod through the block hitting the fuel & oil filters (can't remember witch) caught fire, and burned to the ground. Though it cannot be confirmed because the hour meter broke several years ago and never fixed, it is believed to have had between 7000 and 10,000 operating hours at the time of the fire with out ever having one engine overhaul. NEVER SAW a JD that could even come remotely close.:eek:wned:
 
Tractors

Having lived in the Mississippi Delta for a majority of my life where farming "king" cotton, 'beans, corn, rice, milo, winter wheat, IS LIFE by itself...

driving down the Delta highways & back roads.... when you see equipment in the filed the vast majority (50 h.p. and up) is Case/International with JD in a close second.

Kubota, JD, Case/Int, MF make up the small tractor line up on the home/hobby/hunting camp usage (50 H.P. and below).

As for AGCO..... there is one dealer I am aware there in the Delta that has been in the same location, just south of Carey, MS for as long as I have been alive (32 years). It's burned to ground twice, nearly blown away by a tornado, gone bankrupt several times because there is just no business, and probably changed hands more times than you can count. To the best of my knowledge it is still there. In the '80s there were several Glenear combines lurking around but they have since been replaced by RED and GREEN and even a few YELLOW machines. CLAAS Commanders even made a breif stint. No one seemed to like those because repair manuals were only availabe written in German and parts were hard to come by.


On a personal note......... I never saw a John Deere that COULD NOT BE OUT-DONE by an International. The absolute, toughest tractor I ever operated was a '70s 1066 Turbo IH with duals and a bulldozer blade. With that turbo spooled up, there was not a tree (or it's root system) that was safe from that machine. I must report (sadly) that it died 3-5 years ago while running a P.T.O. driven irrigation well. Late one afternoon, it slung a rod through the block hitting the fuel & oil filters (can't remember witch) caught fire, and burned to the ground. Though it cannot be confirmed because the hour meter broke several years ago and never fixed, it is believed to have had between 7000 and 10,000 operating hours at the time of the fire with out ever having one engine overhaul. NEVER SAW a JD that could even come remotely close.:eek:wned:
 
Wild & Crazy

To follow up on that last post......

We have a Case 441 that my grand-father found in the weeds somewhere.

It's been "restored" and I use that term loosely.
Originally it was a Tri-cycle, propane driven machine.....

It now sports a wide front end and has been re-powered with a Kubota 4-cylinder diesel removed from a rental company mini track-hoe.

The wild and crazy comes from the achievement of doing between 50 - 60 MPH on the highway!!!!!!!:eek:wned: :what: *nx* :cheer:

How do we know this you ask?

We paced it with a truck following behind!!!!!!!!

Dont beleive me...... ask Billysgoat or analreject...... they'll tell you it's true.
 
WYODodge said:
Having lived in the Mississippi Delta for a majority of my life where farming "king" cotton, 'beans, corn, rice, milo, winter wheat, IS LIFE by itself...

driving down the Delta highways & back roads.... when you see equipment in the field the vast majority (50 h.p. and up) is Case/International with JD in a close second.

Kubota, JD, Case/Int, MF make up the small tractor line up on the home/hobby/hunting camp usage (50 H.P. and below).

As for AGCO..... there is ONLY one dealer I am aware of there in the Delta that has been in the same location, just south of Carey, MS for as long as I have been alive (32 years). It's burned to ground twice, nearly blown away by a tornado, gone bankrupt several times because there is just no business, and probably changed hands more times than you can count. To the best of my knowledge it is still there. In the '80s there were several Glenear combines lurking around but they have since been replaced by RED and GREEN and even a few YELLOW machines. CLAAS Commanders even made a breif stint. No one seemed to like those because repair manuals were only availabe written in German and parts were hard to come by.


On a personal note......... I never saw a John Deere that COULD NOT BE OUT-DONE by an International. The absolute, toughest tractor I ever operated was a '70s 1066 Turbo IH with duals and a bulldozer blade. With that turbo spooled up, there was not a tree (or it's root system) that was safe from that machine. I must report (sadly) that it died 3-5 years ago while running a P.T.O. driven irrigation well. Late one afternoon, it slung a rod through the block hitting the fuel & oil filters (can't remember witch) caught fire, and burned to the ground. Though it cannot be confirmed because the hour meter broke several years ago and never fixed, it is believed to have had between 7000 and 10,000 operating hours at the time of the fire with out ever having one engine overhaul. NEVER SAW a JD that could even come remotely close.:eek:wned:

thats funny I have a 4840 with 10,000 hr stll running never been opned up still pulls great. I have a 2750 that just turned 9,000 hr still going I have a 4020 with 13,000 hr still going. I have a few green tractor that will out pull a red tractor. I just got a new 9630 that will run side by side with the big stx 535 what ever the numbers are and the deere doing better on fuel and much more comfterble to sit in.
 
I dont know about the rest of you guys but John Deere just isnt the tractor or any of the equipment it use to be. I work for a local college and we are gradually changing all of our smaller equipment out (30Hp and lower) for Kubota. All of our utility vehicles barely run with less then 1000 hours on them and just cant do the work we need it to. I dont know much about the big equipment anymore but i know alot of guys who bleed green that tell me they are bleeding to death from fixing equipment every week. Maybe it is just there smaller equipment they are letting go down hill.
 
Mike and I have a little problem with each other. I'm shure he will boot me from this site also but that fine with me

and yes i'm three
 
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deerezilla said:
Mike and I have a little problem with each other. I'm shure he will boot me from this site also but that fine with me

and yes i'm three

So you have a problem with a guy, but fell the need to attack him on an internet board...when all you had to do was click the little "X" in the top right corner of your screen?

Sheesh...you really are 12 aren't you?
Chris
 
rivalry

deerezilla said:
thats funny I have a 4840 with 10,000 hr stll running never been opned up still pulls great. I have a 2750 that just turned 9,000 hr still going I have a 4020 with 13,000 hr still going. I have a few green tractor that will out pull a red tractor. I just got a new 9630 that will run side by side with the big stx 535 what ever the numbers are and the deere doing better on fuel and much more comfterble to sit in.


Dude......


I have yet to see any NEW JD model pull triple, 25 yard, lazer controled dirt buckets with the first two loaded and the third digging through Delta buck-shot... especially when buck-shot has just the right moisture content to give it the same consistentcy as concrete....

meaning.... this dirt [given the right conditions] is equal to concrete while it's in the hardening phase... [transforming from a liquid to a semi-hard solid.

i have seen only one machine do this.... it is a late '90s Case/IH/Stieger in a triple wheel configuration.

i will concede that a Brand new JD pivot-steer on tracks might be able to do this... cant speak any certainty to that because i am not aware of any farm operation in my area who is willing to pay the sharp & highly steep price for one
 
one further note about delta buck-shot


once again, given the right conditions, you can pick up a fresh clod right off the disk about the size of a 20 pound turkey.......

hit it with a 15-20 lb. sledge-hammer and it will send a shockwave through your hands, wrists, and fore arms with not even leaving an indentation on the clod

i am not making this up.

if you don't believe me... PM members blackandstacked or billysgoat.... they'll confirm it

i have personally seen buckshot claim a sub-soiler (also known as a ripper)
it sheared off one blade of the six blade ripper... mind you this blade was TWO INCH SOLID STEEL. Had to be dug out of the field with a back hoe
 
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Yeah...but John Deere's the best:D

They quit building good machinery when the X000 series' came out. They'll run about 10K hours then take a big dump!

BTW, 10K hours might be a lot for us midwestern folks, but in California, and in the SW where they farm all year, 10K is bout 5-6 years away;)

Chris

PS...I'm not slamming Deere, they don't build Junk, it's just not what it used to be. I don't have to be afraid of going head to head with any of their tractors, or combines. Brand loyalty, and their ridiculous lease programs is basically what's keeping them on top. That, and some good dealers...but not all of them are that great!
 
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Deere Downfall

Spoke with an aquaintance of mine today... told me that his employer is dropping their JD small power line up....

reason: required to keep to much inventory on hand with little to no demand:bang



you be the judge
 
WYODodge said:
Spoke with an aquaintance of mine today... told me that his employer is dropping their JD small power line up....

reason: required to keep to much inventory on hand with little to no demand:bang



you be the judge

That's happening with all companies...they want bigger, stronger dealers to carry the brand. Each year we have tougher standards on smaller dealer to weed out those who have become lethargic in the sales tactics. They don't want someone out there unwilling to push the product.

Also, in certain areas, small equipment is a tough sell, or there is a niche dealer who does a good job, and it's hard to play ball with them. I don't sell too many small tractors, under 40-50hp, in the compact segment...maybe 10 a year...while I sell 40+, 50-535hp farm tractors. It's just not something that we push very hard because we don't want to be very involved in that segment!

Chris
 
WYODodge said:
Dude......


I have yet to see any NEW JD model pull triple, 25 yard, lazer controled dirt buckets with the first two loaded and the third digging through Delta buck-shot... especially when buck-shot has just the right moisture content to give it the same consistentcy as concrete....

meaning.... this dirt [given the right conditions] is equal to concrete while it's in the hardening phase... [transforming from a liquid to a semi-hard solid.

i have seen only one machine do this.... it is a late '90s Case/IH/Stieger in a triple wheel configuration.

i will concede that a Brand new JD pivot-steer on tracks might be able to do this... cant speak any certainty to that because i am not aware of any farm operation in my area who is willing to pay the sharp & highly steep price for one

I will also tell you there is no yellow or red tractor that will pull 3 25 yard pans. The most you can pull with them is 3 17-18 yard pans. They do not have enough power to pull 3 25 yard pans. Also the new John Deere's will pull 3 18 yard pans. I've run all of them in the dirt Case IH STX 480, Mt865 and the 4wd Mt975, and the one that does the best in my oponion is the red one.
 
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