Powerstroke Cowboy
Boost is energy held back
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Okay, I am looking to buy one and was hoping you had experience with one.
Keep up the good work.
1951 Cockshutt 30–1.9L TDI Swap
- Thread starter CTD2500
- Start date
Okay, I am looking to buy one and was hoping you had experience with one.
Keep up the good work.
I hope you are not going the vgt/vnt route like turbonator etc...
Scalers are great tools! I have a bluepoint one. Its probably not any better than a harbor freight one.
I've ordered a 68mm s300 housing from savage fabrication for the drag car.
Scalers are great tools! I have a bluepoint one. Its probably not any better than a harbor freight one.
I've ordered a 68mm s300 housing from savage fabrication for the drag car.
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Powerstroke Cowboy
Boost is energy held back
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What don't you like about the turbonator?
Thanks for the feedback on the scales. It's appreciated.
Nothing wrong with the turbonator I just like the idea of using 2 fixed geometry turbo's doing the same job as one variable geometry turbo. International even went away from a single vairable turbo in favor of 2 turbo's on the Maxxforce engines.
Powerstroke Cowboy
Boost is energy held back
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Okay. Gotcha.
CTD2500
Brown Between the Cheeks
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Well sir, I have some bad news for you.
This truck has had compounds since 2012, and I’ve had about a dozen different combinations on it since then. This will be my first try with a VGT, which is a mechanical-actuated Turbonator with a 62/68 SX-E.
Anyway, I have a small tractor update while I’m here. We had some unseasonably warm weather here a couple weeks ago so I was able to get the brake shoes painted. That happened on one of the last warm days, after a full week of spacing-out and not realizing I could have been painting parts the whole time.
After letting the paint cure for a week, and last night was time to get organized for attaching the new friction material.
It went OK; some of the rivets didn’t grab as good as I’d like, partly because drilling and countersinking woven material presented a few issues. Overall, I think they’ll work fine.
Nothing else was painted, as said, so that’s all I have for now. The brakes will not be reinstalled until the chassis is painted anyway, and cleaning that is a slow, but steady process. The final drive housing is finished, all that’s left is the transmission housing and the torque tube ahead of that. I will probably remove the shift tower to reseal it and tighten up the shifter, as well as clean out the housing below, which I assume is full gunk like the rear end was.
Powerstroke Cowboy
Boost is energy held back
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Nice update, looks like.good progress. Cleaning up parts is the worst part of the job. IMHO that is.
Keep us informed on how the Turbonator works out for you. I am hoping to do this as well.
Keep us informed on how the Turbonator works out for you. I am hoping to do this as well.
CTD2500
Brown Between the Cheeks
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Apologies for the lack of posting, it has been busy around here lately and not much progress has been made on the 30. Life and work got in the way, and also I’ve been focusing on finishing that project on my truck.
All I’ve done on the tractor is remove the shift tower and get that cleaned up.
This is the view inside the transmission with the shifter removed. I didn’t see any issues in there, other than needing to clean the crud out of the bottom.
Here’s a few shots of the shifter itself, including reassembly with a new boot being test fitted. No issues seen, other than the shifter pivot needing to be tightened to remove slop. That required knocking the pin out of the side and reinstalling it backwards to use the fresh end.
Other than that, I’ve been picking away at cleaning the rear half of the chassis—although I haven’t touched it for a few weeks. Hopefully in a few more weeks I’ll have it all stripped and painted. Then I can move on to the pedals, floor pans, brakes etc.
This is how it sits right now.
As for the truck, it is finished as of yesterday, although I haven’t driven it yet because I wanted to buff the rust off of the brake rotors before taking it out—which I did tonight. Tomorrow I will drive it since it’s dark out now and I want to be able to check for oil leaks, etc.
I have a short video of it if anyone wants to see the finished product.
Cummins Turbo Setup Complete
All I’ve done on the tractor is remove the shift tower and get that cleaned up.
This is the view inside the transmission with the shifter removed. I didn’t see any issues in there, other than needing to clean the crud out of the bottom.
Here’s a few shots of the shifter itself, including reassembly with a new boot being test fitted. No issues seen, other than the shifter pivot needing to be tightened to remove slop. That required knocking the pin out of the side and reinstalling it backwards to use the fresh end.
Other than that, I’ve been picking away at cleaning the rear half of the chassis—although I haven’t touched it for a few weeks. Hopefully in a few more weeks I’ll have it all stripped and painted. Then I can move on to the pedals, floor pans, brakes etc.
This is how it sits right now.
As for the truck, it is finished as of yesterday, although I haven’t driven it yet because I wanted to buff the rust off of the brake rotors before taking it out—which I did tonight. Tomorrow I will drive it since it’s dark out now and I want to be able to check for oil leaks, etc.
I have a short video of it if anyone wants to see the finished product.
Cummins Turbo Setup Complete
Well sir, I have some bad news for you.
This truck has had compounds since 2012, and I’ve had about a dozen different combinations on it since then. This will be my first try with a VGT, which is a mechanical-actuated Turbonator with a 62/68 SX-E.
Well dang... Good on you for trying new things and not just being ok with the same ole setup ! I suspect it will perform well. I like how VGT performs with a "calculated load" input on ECM equipped engines.I suspect that cruise/low load boost is usually high with this setup as there is no input for load.Would be nice to open the exhaust flow up for cruising/low load conditions to take advantage of this setup.
Come to think of it my smallish compounds are spinning pretty good under cruise/low load anyways...My truck is usually loaded so I don't mind having higher boost while cruising or low load.
Love the lining on the shoes, Looks like a great job.
CTD2500
Brown Between the Cheeks
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Thanks, guys.
This new setup needs more fuel, but I haven’t had time to really mess with it yet. The VGT is larger than the old manifold turbo, which was a 57/61/.7 SXE so it doesn’t spool as fast with the same fuel as before. The bit of tuning I’ve done so far has woken the VGT up a bit, but I need to swap to a lighter AFC spring to get it to respond with more fuel sooner.
There’s also an adjustment on the Turbonator where you can set the starting point on the vanes, similar to adjusting the length of a wastegate actuator.
For comparison, the old setup was the 57 SXE mentioned above, with an S300 72/80/1.0 primary. Not much fuel needed to spool it to 60 psi. It would maintain 1:1 boost to drive until 2500rpm, but above that, back pressure went berserk. Same thing if I tried running higher than 60 boost.
The new setup is the 62/68/VGT SXE, with two 57/61/.78 (roughly 12cm) SXE primaries. Both setups had air to air cooling between stages as well as after.
The challenge I set for myself in building this setup was to see if I could mount the primaries down low like a traditional compound setup, while keeping both batteries, A/C, and a sealed cold air intake.
I succeeded, but holy crap it’s a tight fit. It’s like playing Tetris installing the pipes. The only thing left is to see how it performs when I maximize the tuning. Shockingly, nothing rattles or touches together so far. I haven’t pressurized it to check for boost leaks yet either, so there’s that to think about too.
I’ll do some pictures to show how it’s laid out.
At the base of the hotpipe, at the back corner I added a bung so I can see drive pressure after the manifold turbo. My manifold is a stainless BD unit that has two bungs as well.
From below. A new oil pan with two drains welded in. Also two 3.5” downpipes merge into the single 5” exhaust.
Here is the hotpipe.
This is the splitter flange that clamps to the base of the hotpipe. It positions the primaries so they’re staggered and somewhat meshed together to save space.
Anyway, not to highjack my own thread, I’ve gotten busy with painting more tractor parts after doing a massive garage cleanup once the truck was finished. It’s nice to finally get some colour on the rest of these brake bits.
This new setup needs more fuel, but I haven’t had time to really mess with it yet. The VGT is larger than the old manifold turbo, which was a 57/61/.7 SXE so it doesn’t spool as fast with the same fuel as before. The bit of tuning I’ve done so far has woken the VGT up a bit, but I need to swap to a lighter AFC spring to get it to respond with more fuel sooner.
There’s also an adjustment on the Turbonator where you can set the starting point on the vanes, similar to adjusting the length of a wastegate actuator.
For comparison, the old setup was the 57 SXE mentioned above, with an S300 72/80/1.0 primary. Not much fuel needed to spool it to 60 psi. It would maintain 1:1 boost to drive until 2500rpm, but above that, back pressure went berserk. Same thing if I tried running higher than 60 boost.
The new setup is the 62/68/VGT SXE, with two 57/61/.78 (roughly 12cm) SXE primaries. Both setups had air to air cooling between stages as well as after.
The challenge I set for myself in building this setup was to see if I could mount the primaries down low like a traditional compound setup, while keeping both batteries, A/C, and a sealed cold air intake.
I succeeded, but holy crap it’s a tight fit. It’s like playing Tetris installing the pipes. The only thing left is to see how it performs when I maximize the tuning. Shockingly, nothing rattles or touches together so far. I haven’t pressurized it to check for boost leaks yet either, so there’s that to think about too.
I’ll do some pictures to show how it’s laid out.
At the base of the hotpipe, at the back corner I added a bung so I can see drive pressure after the manifold turbo. My manifold is a stainless BD unit that has two bungs as well.
From below. A new oil pan with two drains welded in. Also two 3.5” downpipes merge into the single 5” exhaust.
Here is the hotpipe.
This is the splitter flange that clamps to the base of the hotpipe. It positions the primaries so they’re staggered and somewhat meshed together to save space.
Anyway, not to highjack my own thread, I’ve gotten busy with painting more tractor parts after doing a massive garage cleanup once the truck was finished. It’s nice to finally get some colour on the rest of these brake bits.
Powerstroke Cowboy
Boost is energy held back
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You can Hijack This thread with kinds of pictures any time you want. Glad to see progress on the tractor. I have been wondering if there was anything else done to it.
Very nice looking turbo setup. When you get it dialed in it should be awesome. The vgt setup should really help lower backpressure and at the same time push the atmosphere turbos harder since it's letting more exhaust at them.
Very nice looking turbo setup. When you get it dialed in it should be awesome. The vgt setup should really help lower backpressure and at the same time push the atmosphere turbos harder since it's letting more exhaust at them.
CTD2500
Brown Between the Cheeks
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Apologies for the delay, folks. I have been busy with other things and haven’t had time for this project. I have been slowly picking away at cleaning the rear half of the chassis in hopes of getting it painted soon. Not much else has happened, honestly.
This little recessed section has been a nightmare.
Other than that, I’ve been driving and tuning the new triples on my truck. I have hit 70psi with it, although boost from the primaries seems low—only 18psi. Like I said in a previous post, I added a port for a drive pressure gauge in the hotpipe, and drive pressure from primaries is over 30. This seems high compared to 18psi of boost, so I think I should pressure test it for boost leaks before I go further. It could also be that the primaries are non-gated, or maybe this is just how compounds with a VGT on the manifold act, but I’d better make sure I’m not leaking boost first.
The nice thing is that at 70psi total boost, drive pressure in the exhaust manifold is just under 60, which is pretty good, I think.
Spool up with the VGT is decent for a 62/68, especially if you step on it hard. With light throttle, I kinda think the old 57/61/.7 SX-E spooled the same or better, but it’s hard to compare the two. I will say the VGT spools the 62 better than a .7 housing, and the top end drive pressure is much better. I found that if I tightened the starting point of the VGT any more, it just caused drive pressure to spike off the line without any better boost response so I think the current setting is where it’ll stay.
I also ended up replacing my injectors with those Stage 4’s from DDP. Power is about the same as the 5x.018” that I was running before, but these new ones are much cleaner and smoother running. Expensive, but good injectors so far. I just wish they would publish the specs on them. All I know is they flow similar to a 5x.018” and have the two small pilot holes, which is neat.
This little recessed section has been a nightmare.
Other than that, I’ve been driving and tuning the new triples on my truck. I have hit 70psi with it, although boost from the primaries seems low—only 18psi. Like I said in a previous post, I added a port for a drive pressure gauge in the hotpipe, and drive pressure from primaries is over 30. This seems high compared to 18psi of boost, so I think I should pressure test it for boost leaks before I go further. It could also be that the primaries are non-gated, or maybe this is just how compounds with a VGT on the manifold act, but I’d better make sure I’m not leaking boost first.
The nice thing is that at 70psi total boost, drive pressure in the exhaust manifold is just under 60, which is pretty good, I think.
Spool up with the VGT is decent for a 62/68, especially if you step on it hard. With light throttle, I kinda think the old 57/61/.7 SX-E spooled the same or better, but it’s hard to compare the two. I will say the VGT spools the 62 better than a .7 housing, and the top end drive pressure is much better. I found that if I tightened the starting point of the VGT any more, it just caused drive pressure to spike off the line without any better boost response so I think the current setting is where it’ll stay.
I also ended up replacing my injectors with those Stage 4’s from DDP. Power is about the same as the 5x.018” that I was running before, but these new ones are much cleaner and smoother running. Expensive, but good injectors so far. I just wish they would publish the specs on them. All I know is they flow similar to a 5x.018” and have the two small pilot holes, which is neat.
Powerstroke Cowboy
Boost is energy held back
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Does your pressure gauge between the primary turbo read the atmosphere pressure as well as actual pressure? If so that could explain the boost to back pressure difference.
bateman
Well-known member
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I too wish they published that info. From what info I’ve read they are 155° pattern with the body machined to sit farther in the head. Someone measured some with pin gauges I believe and while they were smaller than 5x18’s they made similar power. I want to try the 4’s myself so glad to hear they work well for you. Truck sounds like a fun one for sure.
What is your estimated time of completion on the tractor project? Seems like you are past the hardest part, but I imagine the engine will be a good bit of work.
What is your estimated time of completion on the tractor project? Seems like you are past the hardest part, but I imagine the engine will be a good bit of work.
CTD2500
Brown Between the Cheeks
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The gauges are all boost gauges, which start at zero being atmospheric pressure. I think that’s what you’re asking. For back pressure I just use old boost gauges with copper tubes and then I remove them once it’s all set up.
The tractor will probably be another year, likely more. That may change though; things are going slow now, but who knows, things may zip along.
The tractor will probably be another year, likely more. That may change though; things are going slow now, but who knows, things may zip along.
Powerstroke Cowboy
Boost is energy held back
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Yes, that's what I was refering to.
Would like to see your charge air cooler between stages. Any pics? I'm assuming its air to air...
70 psi boost with 60 drive that's very good regardless of how hard the primaries are pushing! You would likely have more pressure between stages without charge air cooling (assuming that its both cooling the charge and not restricting flow). Would be nice to see the turbine speed on the manifold turbo. Actually you might benefit from losing the cooler between stages if it raised the between stage pressure by only 5 psi lets say. 18 psi doesn't make too much heat. 70 psi is plenty though for your truck,no need for more.
I finally broke down and bought the garrett turbo speed gauge for the manifold turbo on my TDI car. My wastegated s362 Villian is currently set to run 90-100k rpm. At 4500rpm under full load the Intake manifold pressure was 125 psi and drive pressure was 55 psi with 45 psi boost between stages (s475/87mm with air to air between stages) .
70 psi boost with 60 drive that's very good regardless of how hard the primaries are pushing! You would likely have more pressure between stages without charge air cooling (assuming that its both cooling the charge and not restricting flow). Would be nice to see the turbine speed on the manifold turbo. Actually you might benefit from losing the cooler between stages if it raised the between stage pressure by only 5 psi lets say. 18 psi doesn't make too much heat. 70 psi is plenty though for your truck,no need for more.
I finally broke down and bought the garrett turbo speed gauge for the manifold turbo on my TDI car. My wastegated s362 Villian is currently set to run 90-100k rpm. At 4500rpm under full load the Intake manifold pressure was 125 psi and drive pressure was 55 psi with 45 psi boost between stages (s475/87mm with air to air between stages) .