6.7 L 68rfe vs. 48re

Reb.B

horsepower junkie
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
116
I thought I'd fill everybody in about my 6.7 latest info. Its a 07.5 truck, megacab longbed dually 4x4. Its got 55K on the dash and has been turned up after the first month I bought it. The last dyno was 538 hp at the wheels. Not too much, it's my wife's daily driver, she's happy, did I mention it has a 500Lbs bumper that sticks out 1.5 ft. Crazy woman with a big truck. Anyway, SMARTY went on the truck last month, and the power is crazy. I haven't dynoed yet (scared about trans) but if feels like a good 30-40 extra HP over what i had before(bullydog, boring!) and 150 extra TQ. Crazy low end power and pulling power.
I have been warning Dave Goerend for the last 4 months about tranny's when the smarty comes out. Dave has been reluctant. We've been messing with TC's for a year, but did little stuff to trans, not much. I finally pissed Dave off enough to the point that he wanted to dip deep. We did some testing and I warned Dave that with the extra power I had now the trans would be Done in a heart beat. No hard lanches is over 20K miles and no real full throttle runs. But 2 full throttle runs and the 68rfe was toaste!

I pulled the trans out the next day and saw the OD clutches, (5th and 6th) were burnt. Everything else in the trans is SOOOOOO weak. Stamped steel, thin, aluminum drums, very scary. I was worried that even if we build the trans to hold clutches from burning, that the hard parts are going to explode. I called Dave, we agreed on the trans weak parts and decided to give Ron @ Suncoast a call since he has two things: experience with 68rfe and stand alone VB for 47-48re. He agreed after 500 its going to be very hard to make the 68rfe live.

I new i could get the 48 in the truck, i had a 6.7 in front of a 48 in my 03, it would just be in a 07 now. Dave and I called Ron and got a VB and Stand alone from him. I built my 48 full billet and put the controller in.

Very simple install on trans and controller. I changed the engine/trans adapter plate (because the 6.7 is deeper) and the flex plate. 48 and 68 are only 1/4 " difference in length, so drivelines are the same. I changed the input shaft on the transfer case and bolted it all together. The VB and controller was a breeze. Super simple and Ron at Suncoast is VERY easy person to talk to.

I also changed the shifter cable, rewired the starter switch, and ground a notch in the shifter bracket for low and second manual gear. You can also buy a $30 bracket that will work.
Trans works perfect, horsepower is way low now. Not sure if its in limp mode or if torque management is on. We talked to Marco and we are going to plug in a manual shift tune into the computer or try to get rid of TM. If all else fails I'm going to plug in 03 ECM, injectors, harness, valve covers, and make the engine an 03 (6.7 piston deisgn is very similiar to 03). I plan on keeping both ECM's in truck so I can still have lights, air,etc. But I really want to keep it 6.7 tuning so the swap can be done cheap as possible. When everybody gets the itch for power there are going to be a lot of dead 68's.

What's been done to truck so far is Smarty, MP8, F-1 tips, 64-71-16 turbo, two piece exhaust manifold, 48 re full billet trans, Sun Coast Stand Alone VB. I'll let you guys know when the power decides to return again. Thanks Reb
 
Good info, sad for the 68RFE though. Guess the big boys might have to do what you did or maybe the aisian 68RE?
 
Good info Reb. Is it a lost cause to think of having upgraded drums etc. made for the 68?

I figure at this point the 48 will be better because of the availability of parts, but I would think a lot of people are going to frown on having to lose the 2 extra gears in there new truck, no?

Lavon
 
GOOD info right here..........a manual tune should get you back to were you were, the ecm has to be confused with no tranny connection.

Hows the shifting compared to the stock ecm? tunability? The next stage of this go around is the bosch ecm and suncoast standalone.
 
68 upgraded internals will be very expensive. There's no room for larger, thicker, stronger upgraded parts. When somebody gets the pressure high enough (not so easy because of shifting issues afterwards), then they will need more surface area for the frictions, then you will need stronger parts (so crazy weak), and Then when you get all these things done and the trans shifts too fast and parts will fly because of bind up, just like an allison. I never thought I would miss bands so much until i saw the 68.

My brother was in contact with Marco and I don't think Marco was too confident about changing the tune from auto to trans. If anybody can come up with a solution Marco can. I need to put my brain to work and see if there is a simple connection between the TCM and ECM that lets the ECM think the trans is okay.
I was talking to Ron @ SunCoast and he was thinking that he was going to try to get the paddle shifter to work with his TCM and VB. This would be cool, even on trucks from 06 and above and maybe even some older trucks with a TCM.
 
Just a guess but, you could try making it think it's in neutral, get the switches right, resisters for solinoids, pressure transducers. Make the wiring diagram happy....
Even then, fool it to that point will it fuel hard in neutral????

Swap in a manual ecm??
 
Good Reading Reb. Ron knows his stuff!!! I had a dream last night..... my 6.7 had a 6 speed Alli in it.... and the paddle shifters worked.... maybe??:evil
 
That does suck bout a 68. Maybe eventually aftermarket parts will become available and not cost an arm and a leg. That is some good reading about the project though. Very interesting.
 
Wooo Hooo! HORSEPOWER!, ya, GET-R-DONE, THANKS MARCO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Super awesome, more power than before, crazy awesome, I'm back on the road and I got a couple extra ponies with me and two less gears.

Marco built a recovery program for the manual shift, then My Bro Erick loaded it, then the Smarty for a manual shift, and all the bad lights went off the cluster and the power is there, even more than before. Need to turn it down a little now, lol!

So now, I'm done, 6.7, lots of power, a reliable trans, and very user friendly. Need to tune the trans in a little more, and see about lowering the idle about 100-150 rpm and its perfect.

A big thanks to Marco @ Mad Electronics, Ron @ Suncoast, Erick @ Brownsdiesel.
 
I could easily see this happening ALOT, if the 68rfe is found to be not very good at holding big power...
 
This is the exact reason I went with the manual after many conversations with DTT, JTT, and mostly Tim Holt.

Nice work on your truck. Cannot wait to get Smarty loaded on the manual and get better clutch.

BTW, you going to dyno any time soon?
 
So what your saying is my dream can come true. If you can load a manual tune the put a 48 behind the 6.7 why couldn't you put a 6spd Allison??
 
disregardx the pm i sent i should have read the rest of the thread...
 
Gonna dyno next week. Gotta tune trans today. Power is (under the curve, ie. torque) is there right now. I need a bigger charger on it now, the 64 mm is too small. Its a daily driven tow rig, so i'll dyno and probably defuel it a little so 120 mph runs will be okay without burning down. I'm sooo happy with the truck now, been a long time coming. I'll get part number sometime next week.
 
So what your saying is my dream can come true. If you can load a manual tune the put a 48 behind the 6.7 why couldn't you put a 6spd Allison??

I believe you would still need the Duramax ECM so the Allison still thinks its behind the Duramax and not the Cummins. Or it would need maybe a tune from a factory Allison/Cummins combo from a medium duty platform. I read up on this alot about a year ago and cant seem to find where I read the different possible solutions and cant remember much about it.

I do remember it being said the Allison needs to think its still behind a Duramax for the defuel between shifts. How that actually works, I dunno
 
I believe you would still need the Duramax ECM so the Allison still thinks its behind the Duramax and not the Cummins. Or it would need maybe a tune from a factory Allison/Cummins combo from a medium duty platform. I read up on this alot about a year ago and cant seem to find where I read the different possible solutions and cant remember much about it.

I do remember it being said the Allison needs to think its still behind a Duramax for the defuel between shifts. How that actually works, I dunno

Fleece did it in a VP truck. It runs good. Ron also had one in the VP shop truck too. I think it is very possible. The Allison programming I'm not as worried about as I am the 6.7 ECM, but it sounds like Smarty could hook that part up no prob.
 
So basically he programed the ECM to a manual trans program correct? Thats sad news about the 68. The bad thing is the G56 isnt that great of a manual trans either.
 
Chace gave me the vin number for their trans conversion and their recovery/smarty 67 is shipping tomorrow.

Good times
 
Reb you are a true pioneer man. lets get ready for the next meeting. hint hint
 
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