Anybody else get a good look at the new comp wheels on the Holset turbos???

I took apart a HE351ve yesterday and the shaft was the same size as the He351cw shaft 04.5'-07' 5.9 cummins which is 6.98mm for the compressor shaft and 10.95mm for the turbine shaft. Both measurements obviously varied depending on where you measured so 7mm and 11mm for conversation purposes.

The HE351cw shaft, however, has a slightly milled down section in the middle of the shaft between where the two journal bearing ride.

The HE351ve shaft, has a single milled notch that can be viewed from the oil inlet feed line when you spin the shaft to the correct position.

I would venture to say the ve looks to have a slightly better shaft but both still have the skinny 7mm compressor side that looks like a weak link if you barked the turbo or had a nitrous back fire.

Also the blade pitch on the cw turbine wheel is steeper and forms more of a "c' shape when you look at a side profile of a blade, whereas, the ve turbine wheel is larger and forms more of a slant profile and never really forces the exhaust to completely change direction as it travels across the blade. Kinda how I would imagine the difference between a S300 65mm turbine wheel compares to a s300 71mm LDP turbine wheel.
 
Big Blue24 said:
The HE351ve shaft, has a single milled notch that can be viewed from the oil inlet feed line when you spin the shaft to the correct position.
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I would assume that is the notch for the shaft speed sensor.

Big Blue24 said:
I would venture to say the ve looks to have a slightly better shaft but both still have the skinny 7mm compressor side that looks like a weak link if you barked the turbo or had a nitrous back fire.
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Sad thing is these turbo's bark hard if your playing in the mud or spinning the tires and let out quick... Maybe with a little luck the 400 series is a little heavier. I will find out when I get a seal kit to fix that oil leak on the hotside :doh:

Big Blue24 said:
Also the blade pitch on the cw turbine wheel is steeper and forms more of a "c' shape when you look at a side profile of a blade, whereas, the ve turbine wheel is larger and forms more of a slant profile and never really forces the exhaust to completely change direction as it travels across the blade. Kinda how I would imagine the difference between a S300 65mm turbine wheel compares to a s300 71mm LDP turbine wheel.
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That's kind of the idea I got when looking at my turbine wheel... I really should hook up a drive pressure gauge and check to see what it looks like when pushing 40+psi of boost.

Oh and an update, this thing tows like a friggin champ! I would have figured that by stepping up from 370's to (basically) 435's that I would have had EGT issues while towing. But I was wrong! It actually runs quite a bit cooler than before and this turbo is really nice about getting the load moving, even with the 3.54's I hardly noticed the GN with my friend's truck on the back... I would imagine the 4.10's are gonna make it even easier, though I am looking at a set of valve springs and 4k gov springs :rockwoot:
 
Ok I have a question. I have 2 HE351VGT and 1 HE431VGT(3 turbos for $400 how can you go wrong?) with the shiny compressor wheel (lol) and still undecided about which one I want to use on my truck.

From what I gather the only difference between the 431 and 451 is the smaller turbine housings correct? And the only difference between the 351 and 400 series is the size of the turbine wheel?

Currently I have a 62/71/14 that is set up for a 05 truck that I adapted to fit my 02. Since the 400 charger has a larger turbine wheel than my 62 does it have the same tendency to be slow to spool until it hits 10 lbs and then take off? Or does it pretty much act the same at any boost?

Thanks and good job on the install.
 
Ok I am interested in this, you say it spooled really well even pulling a GN and kept EGT's in check? How exactly did you get the variable geometry to work?
 
kazairl said:
Ok I have a question. I have 2 HE351VGT and 1 HE431VGT(3 turbos for $400 how can you go wrong?) with the shiny compressor wheel (lol) and still undecided about which one I want to use on my truck.

From what I gather the only difference between the 431 and 451 is the smaller turbine housings correct? And the only difference between the 351 and 400 series is the size of the turbine wheel?

Currently I have a 62/71/14 that is set up for a 05 truck that I adapted to fit my 02. Since the 400 charger has a larger turbine wheel than my 62 does it have the same tendency to be slow to spool until it hits 10 lbs and then take off? Or does it pretty much act the same at any boost?

Thanks and good job on the install.
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I also think that the 400 series may well have an extended tip compressor wheel while the 300 series doesn't... Right on the cummins website it says that the 400 series will flow more kg/s than the 300 series; I think I posted it earlier in the thread.

It does indeed take off like a rocket right when it hits 10psi, but I don't think it takes very long to get there. It actually does spool faster at part throttle than WOT. But, I also have to mention that it holds just under 10psi of boost while cruising, so if you nail it while rolling you better be ready to get planted in your seat!

Muddin_dude06 said:
Ok I am interested in this, you say it spooled really well even pulling a GN and kept EGT's in check? How exactly did you get the variable geometry to work?
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Threw the electronics away, extended the arm (to make it open slower so the boost wouldn't drop out), built a bracket, and mounted/plumbed a simple wastegate actuator from an HX35... Then just set the initial housing size (all the way closed is an exhaust brake), and set a backstop to keep it from opening all the way. I'm still working on a way to use the exhaust brake, but for now I'm going to leave good enough alone.

Either way I have some pics of what I did to control everything earlier in the thread.
 
couple of updates...

Have to admit that I didn't like the 4.10's... Ran out of gear too quick; couldn't shift fast enough. Doesn't matter anyway, I killed the pinion bearings :bang

3.73's and 35's still run pretty darn good, the low end torque this thing still lights them up pretty easy. Though I can actually feel when the housing opens up. It seems as though it chokes it out just a little bit on the low end until it starts to open... So I'm thinking of running the wastegate actuator with drive pressure. Doing that my actually allow me to close it up a little more and spool it harder off the line :evil

Had to go out to Colorado to help a friend from the Marine Corps, I must say that the elevation doesn't agree too well with the 74mm turbine wheel... I think if I had been using drive pressure to open the housing it wouldn't have been so bad. But if I left the housing as tight on the initial setting as I run in Wisconsin it would choke out before it made enough boost to open the housing. So of course I had to open the housing and that made it a bit of a pooch off the line. Though a 10psi boosted launch still felt pretty good, I was down about 6psi to 33-35psi overall max boost. Overall the EGT's still stayed in check and watching some of the stock diesels running around smoking out intersections I felt pretty good with my smoke levels.

Oh and I know I already said this thing tows like a champ. But, what I didn't say is that I'm still on stock 11* timing!!! I plan on re torquing my head bolts to 130 here in the next week or so and bumping my timing to 19* :evil :ft:

EDIT: Oh yeah and has anyone figured out how to set up a blow-off valve on a diesel yet??? This thing barks pretty easy and I'd like to think that the shafts are stronger than the HX series turbos, but still, it worries me...
 
I'm not aware of the material makeup (alloy) of the different shafts but size wise, the HE351ve has the same diameter shaft as the HE351cw. The only real difference is shafts is that the ve has a machined flat spot that can be viewed from the oil drain return hole. This flat spot would create a little bit of a weak spot but it is between the two journal bearings so I doubt it could or would ever break right there. The compressor wheel shaft diameter is the same size on HX35, HE351cw, HE351ve so unless the alloy is stonger, the shafts have the same strength.


You're running the 431 so who knows, maybe the shafts are larger???
 
Big Blue24 said:
I'm not aware of the material makeup (alloy) of the different shafts but size wise, the HE351ve has the same diameter shaft as the HE351cw. The only real difference is shafts is that the ve has a machined flat spot that can be viewed from the oil drain return hole. This flat spot would create a little bit of a weak spot but it is between the two journal bearings so I doubt it could or would ever break right there. The compressor wheel shaft diameter is the same size on HX35, HE351cw, HE351ve so unless the alloy is stonger, the shafts have the same strength.


You're running the 431 so who knows, maybe the shafts are larger???
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I am indeed hoping that the alloy is stronger... But the 400 series still has the .25" compressor wheel shaft. So that's what worries me, it kinda makes me wonder if twins would help to take some of the load off it. Been contemplating picking up an HT3B from the local bone-yard... :evil
 
I planed on using this set up soon, but now thinking I should just rob the turbine wheels and shaft and put it in my HE341? Im just worried how to keep the thing from exhast braking if I let off to fast.
 

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So it seems you've had a good build here.. Is it feasable that the H1E or 6ct turbo, or even the older L10 turbos could be used in this same manner? Seems that they are cheap too. There are "new" 6cta turbos out there on the cheap-o!
 
Trapper said:
I planed on using this set up soon, but now thinking I should just rob the turbine wheels and shaft and put it in my HE341? Im just worried how to keep the thing from exhast braking if I let off to fast.
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Put a needle valve inline and close it down to delay the open and closing rates... How do you plan to adjust the initial housing size? You realize that it can't be all the way closed to start or you won't build enough boost to open the housing. That is unless you use drive pressure to control the housing; like I plan to switch to since boost is finicky in different elevations...

Cuda said:
So it seems you've had a good build here.. Is it feasable that the H1E or 6ct turbo, or even the older L10 turbos could be used in this same manner? Seems that they are cheap too. There are "new" 6cta turbos out there on the cheap-o!
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Are you talking of the old fixed housing turbos or the later model VGT HX series turbos??? If the latter of the two, then yes, it should work just fine :Cheer:
 
I want to o VGT.. Just don't know which to get.. seems that I found some 6ct turbos for 400$. I think these are VGT as well. but the H1E is not.
 
HE351VGTs pop up on ebay all the time. You can usually get them from 50-100$ There are probably 5 or 6 for sale right now. The HE400VGT chargers show up on a fairly regular basis and will usually run closer to 200$.
 
BlackSkyRacing said:
Put a needle valve inline and close it down to delay the open and closing rates... How do you plan to adjust the initial housing size? You realize that it can't be all the way closed to start or you won't build enough boost to open the housing. That is unless you use drive pressure to control the housing; like I plan to switch to since boost is finicky in different elevations...



:
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I have a air regulator on it now, and I was wondering eather to run it off compressor pressure or exhast pressure? And how to run it off drive pressure without sooting it up?
 
kazairl said:
HE351VGTs pop up on ebay all the time. You can usually get them from 50-100$ There are probably 5 or 6 for sale right now. The HE400VGT chargers show up on a fairly regular basis and will usually run closer to 200$.
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Somebody's doing their home work... :Cheer: Pretty accurate on the prices too, but expect to pay about $30-50 shipping these things are HEAVY. Got mine for something like $208, but after shipping it was $250.xx

Trapper said:
I have a air regulator on it now, and I was wondering eather to run it off compressor pressure or exhast pressure? And how to run it off drive pressure without sooting it up?
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That's what I'm trying to figure out myself. I know to use a couple of feet of copper tubing coiled up to keep the heat down. I've been told to use steel wool as a filter part way down the line. I would assume somewhere near the manifold to keep the lines themselves from gumming up...

I get a feeling that this drive pressure set up is going to need to be built in a manner that allows regular cleaning.
 
Keep up the good work. Lots of good ideas floating around in this thread!!!
 
Not really, just cooking up an idea on how to run the housing with drive pressure... The air must have been pretty thick here yesterday though, this thing was a MONSTER. Kinda scared me (in a good way) because I hit ~50psi yesterday and the EGT's were about 1300* :rockwoot:

Time to retorque the head before my HG makes an early exit. Still trying to find out if I can come up with something harder than 12.9 in 12mm... <- that doesn't cost $600 cause I'd rather get a billet input.
 
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