ATS vs BD.....you decide

Gotta say I did not read all that, don't see the benefit to the reader in dragging all that in here, who has the time to read it and why involve all those people Rich, not sure if Walt wanted his name dragged into this...

These are your words
If you look in the DIY section of the forum, I pretty much do a write-up / review / DIY of every product or component that I put my hands on and am holding off on that until I hear from Walt. If he's happy, I'm fine with that and I'll chalk it up to a one of those projects that just didn't go exactly as planned.

So if Walt is happy, are you happy?
 
dave@BD Power said:
I refuse to deal with people like that and will no longer discuss the matter of this situation with him as you are the consumer, not Rich.
Click to expand...

Conversation is over as far as I'm concerned.
 
So I take that as a NO, you are not satisfied if Walt is, that's contradicting...

Conversation over, agreed
 
I don't have a bone in any of this as I wouldn't use either kit but, in BD's defense.... ATS has been doing it a little longer, they're a bigger company and every company encounters growing pains, customer service issues and quality control problems

IMO Dave, although every kit you send out may not get to the customer like that one did....it may be time to take a look at the quality control to prevent this type of comparison from happening. There's a lot of kits out there now and you'll have to keep up with the rest to stay in the game.
 
triton said:
I don't have a bone in any of this as I wouldn't use either kit but, in BD's defense.... ATS has been doing it a little longer, they're a bigger company and every company encounters growing pains, customer service issues and quality control problems

IMO Dave, although every kit you send out may not get to the customer like that one did....it may be time to take a look at the quality control to prevent this type of comparison from happening. There's a lot of kits out there now and you'll have to keep up with the rest to stay in the game.
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You are correct about the quality control in this market its Quality and Service that will prevail. I would like to think for the most part we do good in both those ares, or at least the feedback I get would indicate that including from Walt. Anyone that has installed our tow twins I am sure can confirm that the install is very good fit and finish.

The R700 kit has been improved, if you visit the other forums that this has been posted on you will see customers that have the R700 kits installed and did not encounter these problems. The moderator on one of these forums who is very well respected did the install in 5 hours.

Hopefully with the feedback the was provided in this write up will only make it better. I am not bitter at all, like I said it was a good write up. :clap:
 
triton said:
I don't have a bone in any of this as I wouldn't use either kit but, in BD's defense.... ATS has been doing it a little longer, they're a bigger company and every company encounters growing pains, customer service issues and quality control problems
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Been doing what longer? Diesel stuff? Surely you jest................
 
i do agree it was a very good write up. but i have a question.

when the BD kit arrived did you not check to make sure all the components were in the box?

also i don't see the BD kit including a new 4" DP being a problem with the kit.

there are problems w/ new parts sometimes that's a given. just b/c you got a "perfectly complete" kit from ATS doesn't mean that every one is that way. trust me i know.

i've personally seen that r700 kit installed in a day w/o any issues. and i've seen the ATS kit take 2-3 days b/c of missing parts.
 
BDPowerDave said:
Hopefully with the feedback the was provided in this write up will only make it better. I am not bitter at all, like I said it was a good write up. :clap:
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Dave, you constantly surprise and impress me with your professionalism and attention to quality and customer satisfaction.

Not to say that I'm surprised that you posess such qualities, but that it's surprising to see your concern and dedication ANYWHERE these days! :clap::clap::clap:
 
Forrest Nearing said:
Dave, you constantly surprise and impress me with your professionalism and attention to quality and customer satisfaction.

Not to say that I'm surprised that you posess such qualities, but that it's surprising to see your concern and dedication ANYWHERE these days! :clap::clap::clap:
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Thank you, I really appreciate your comments... its comments like that, that remind me that I am doing the right thing.

~Making a buck is easy, making a differnce is difficult~

Dave
 
BDPowerDave said:
Thank you, I really appreciate your comments... its comments like that, that remind me that I am doing the right thing.

~Making a buck is easy, making a differnce is difficult~

Dave
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I will say this......

Through the entire process, Dave tried to do right. I certainly can't knock him there.

Many of the things that came about were beyond his control and I'm a little pissed at folks beyond him, so I can't say that Dave didn't try to do right in this.

Dave is stand-up guy in that respect, but like most everyone else, there are bosses and policies that often over ride what folks are trying to do.

Like in my one message I sent to Dave, my question was, "Who is Christian?" and I stated that I like knowing who I was dealing with, as ther eis a big difference in sales, R&D and the BOSS.

Dave, I do appologize for beating you up over this, you just happened to be the guy that was dealing with the issue.
 
Okay....

Here's the deal..


This thread is a write up about the difference one person had with a BD Twins set up and and ATS Twins set up. A very detailed comparison that took quite a bit of time to compile.

Having said that, this thread is going to be about that topic, and that topic only.

If you want to babble about torque and horsepower, visit the posts I removed from this thread...They are here --> Horsepower vs torque - Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together
 
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yeah.....lets whine some more about those two twin kits


why did you move my question about BD and the 62mm wheel?

i thought that might get answered if asked here

and i mean by someone from BD.....not some fan of theirs
 
DTanklage said:
yeah.....lets whine some more about those two twin kits


why did you move my question about BD and the 62mm wheel?

i thought that might get answered if asked here

and i mean by someone from BD.....not some fan of theirs
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Maybe because it had NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS THREAD?????

Ask that question in the BD forum in the vendor area..Or, here's a brilliant idea...Maybe you could send a private message to BDPowerDave. I'm sure he'd answer you.
 
No worries Rich, I did not consider it an assault so much and can certainly understand your frustration not getting to discuss this with my superiors at the time. Circumstances pulled some management out of the office that week and Christian is very involved in the day to day operations at BD but for the most part tries to focus on R&D. The timing was bad as he was juggling the completion of the track bar release that week as well, but still wanted to get involved in your build issues. Although he may not have been available by phone i can assure you he was working with me closely. His concern was not the warranty as much as it was making the kit right and I think that is were the translation was lost.

Again no hard feelings, I have been down this road before, the coolest part is that most of the time it has resulted in a good business relationship. I know what you personally put into this build and write up and am not sure my offering was insulting to you but do hope you will call upon me if you need Rich.

And Walt if you’re out there reading this... I hoped your chuckling, kicked back on your vacation enjoying the read!!! :Cheer: :hehe:


Cummin-a-long said:
I will say this......

Through the entire process, Dave tried to do right. I certainly can't knock him there.

Many of the things that came about were beyond his control and I'm a little pissed at folks beyond him, so I can't say that Dave didn't try to do right in this.

Dave is stand-up guy in that respect, but like most everyone else, there are bosses and policies that often over ride what folks are trying to do.

Like in my one message I sent to Dave, my question was, "Who is Christian?" and I stated that I like knowing who I was dealing with, as ther eis a big difference in sales, R&D and the BOSS.

Dave, I do appologize for beating you up over this, you just happened to be the guy that was dealing with the issue.
Click to expand...
 
partsguy662 said:
Or, here's a brilliant idea...Maybe you could send a private message to BDPowerDave.

I'm sure he'd answer you.
Click to expand...

i thought one of the ideas behind a public forum was so that one could ask a question, the right people could answer it, and later if someone else had the same question they could do a search and find the answer?

thats what i get for thinkin...


dave posted right after you did - he did not respond so i guess he is not going to

somethin tells me i am not the only person wondering why BD only offers two choices to put above the primary, a med large 64 or a tiny 57

i really liked this thread, or thought i would when i saw the title. thats cuz i am gonna splurge for twins here shortly. it seems that for my power level a 62 over a 75 is the way to go

make it a great night...

don
 
DTanklage said:
i thought one of the ideas behind a public forum was so that one could ask a question, the right people could answer it, and later if someone else had the same question they could do a search and find the answer?

thats what i get for thinkin...


dave posted right after you did - he did not respond so i guess he is not going to

somethin tells me i am not the only person wondering why BD only offers two choices to put above the primary, a med large 64 or a tiny 57

i really liked this thread, or thought i would when i saw the title. thats cuz i am gonna splurge for twins here shortly. it seems that for my power level a 62 over a 75 is the way to go

make it a great night...

don
Click to expand...

Don, I did see your post and was going to reply last night but it was almost midnight when I wrote my last reply... yaaaawn!

I get this question about the sizes we use and why... and honesty I do not like releasing the sizes out personally, let me explain why...

As you know we have one of the top engineers JT working with us and BW to come up with designs that have wide efficiency ranges and single chargers that can be upgraded correctly upgraded to twins.

Most of our turbo designs are based off the S300 and S400 turbo charger. We have a full turbo facility on site that allows us to make in house modifications to these design. Which make comparison between other 64's or 57's apples and oranges. With these facilities and technology our goal is a "best of both worlds" scenarios.

The biggest problem I find, especially on these forums is a lot of guys giving advise based on what works on there truck. Which in most cases is true, but because a particular set up is working on one truck/set up, it does not mean it will work as good on another truck/set up. Example... one truck double stacked no injectors that is used for towing, versus a single stack with large injectors used for racing. Same power range, totally different turbo needs!

What I am getting at here is that we engineer our turbos for the widest possible efficiency range. There may be some single and twin charges that spool faster and there may be some single and twins set ups that flow more CFM on the top end but I can assure you that Super B's Single and Twins will give you the best balance of both, "best of both worlds".

How does this answer your question "why we use the sizes we do" because they help us achieve the balance we are looking for with the right combination of components...

The reason I do not like releasing turbo sizes because a lot of people get misled by them. Most of the time users do not fully understand how the different sizes compare, especially when you start adding extended tip compressor wheel into the mix. For example... in our Tow Twins some say they are too small based on size... some say our Super B Single is the same as stock based on size. Truth is with the correctly matched components a smaller wheel spinning at a faster RPM using the extended tip compressor wheel will produce more CFM than a larger wheel without sacrificing spool up time... So bigger is not always better... how much time to you spend with your foot on the floor fully taxing that turbo versus accelerating from a dead stop light to light? Unless your racing full time, probably less than 1% of the time. Well this is Comp Diesel so for arguments sake lets say 10%.

Hope this helps Dave
 
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CFM

IMO, CFM is the best indication of performance.
 

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