Blue smoke observations...Ideas?

I've tried a different delivery valve set with no change. I'm starting to wonder if its the injection pump itself, some have said that isn't likely though.
 
Maybe your old 12v's are getting tired and the big injectors just aren't atomizing well enough to burn everything in the cold temps...

They are old technology for a reason.

BTW, 15* timing isn't going to start hard or drive like a stick of TNT (or whatever the hell that means anyway). 25* will start hard. I always ran my towing truck at 17* and the toy at 28*...One started, one didn't once the temps dropped below 30...

FWIW....and stop dumping ATF in your diesel.... It is for transmissions, not fuel tanks.
Chris
 
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Cornelius, you are the first person to NOT recommend 2 stroke oil..how come?

I tried dumping the whole bottle of PS into the tank, didnt change.

Signature600, if your read my post completely, you would understand that it started hard when i ws at almost 30 deg. it starts and drives fine at 15.

As mentioned before, I am putting the pressure gauge on this weekend to make sure.
A few people have mentioned a sticking plunger in the pump, which-although not familiar with the exact workings of these pumps, i suspect it is, due to ruling the injectors out multiple ways.

Cornelius, could you explain briefly how a sticking plunger could be causing this?
I am assuming that, it is sticking where it should be pumping fuel to inject at 15 BTDC, but since it is stuck, it doesnt move up and push the fuel to the injector until far later once its already in the expansion stroke, resulting in poor atomization and raw fuel being sent out on the next exhaust stroke, is my assumption correct?

in which case, a sticking plunger means its bore is worn? Only way to fix this is to take the entire pump off and rebuild it? Or if I isolate which cyl it is, can i disassemble only that barrel/plunger on the truck and replace it?
 
I would do two things (and people will be critical of both)

Pull the intake tract off and let it idle on just the horn. (you may have done this already)

Then, if no change, pull the exhaust manifold off, plug the turbo oil supply and run it long enough to determine whether you have an isolated of systemic problem.

I could be misunderstanding, but the plungers stick in the "up" position, causing them not to fill with fuel, delaying injection, depriving power, you get the picture.

If they stuck down against the cam, you wouldn't have a pump for very long.

ATF/PS is bad In a fuel system because the detergent can dislodge and disperse contaminants.

I don't see the downside to 2-stroke other than you are adding more exhaust to a vehicle with an exhaust problem.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
 
^i could do that but i strongly disagree it is anything oil related. Oil level has not changed in the last 2k miles. Not saying you are wrong, just dont think this is the issue.

Biggest thing that sticks out to me as to why it is a fuel issue is it is very very quiet on cold start. It was always my impression that these things clatter away when cold, then quiet down some..mine is the other way.

and i definitely have a serious lack of power when it is cold, stumbles, misfires, shoots smoke rings out the pipe.
If a plunger is sticking up-then i would have very late injection as is what I am seeing and hearing.

I am looking at some diagrams, could it be delivery valves? or most likely plunger/barrell?
1200 for a reman pump from local pump shop (northern diesel controls in utica MI), or 1000$ to do all new plungers. Funds dont allow of either right now.

From my understanding is, delivery valves are fine to replace yourself, but to do plunger and barrel it is not advisable?

The key this weekend, will be to crack each line 1 at a time and see if i can isolate it to only 1 cylinder. If its more than just from 1 cylinder..well then probably best to just swap the pump....
 
Explain to me how a sticking plunger wouldn't cause a miss? If it's stuck, it won't pump. If it is pump related, it should get worse as the oil warms up as things will expand and stick.

I never saw where you were anywhere close to 30* timing...I saw where you had it retarded to 330*, but not advanced to 30*...

Look, either it's not timed where you think it is, or something is wrong. Since you're using the pins to time it, you really don't know that they are accurate....I never time using pins, always find TDC and go from there marking the dampener.


But, since you're pointing out problems with every opinion that someone gives you, you obviously already know what it is....Just keep dumping $hit in your tank and maybe it will go away.
Chris
 
Greg5OH said:
Cornelius, you are the first person to NOT recommend 2 stroke oil..how come?
Click to expand...

Either it's a coincidence or it's the oil, but I've seen LOTs of people start putting in 2-stroke oil and soon after, they have injector issues and a haze at idle.
I agree, I can't think of why this would happen, but it seems to.

I really think your issue is either injectors (even though you replaced them), or injection pump related.

Greg5OH said:
Cornelius, could you explain briefly how a sticking plunger could be causing this?
I am assuming that, it is sticking where it should be pumping fuel to inject at 15 BTDC, but since it is stuck, it doesnt move up and push the fuel to the injector until far later once its already in the expansion stroke, resulting in poor atomization and raw fuel being sent out on the next exhaust stroke, is my assumption correct?

in which case, a sticking plunger means its bore is worn? Only way to fix this is to take the entire pump off and rebuild it? Or if I isolate which cyl it is, can i disassemble only that barrel/plunger on the truck and replace it?
Click to expand...

First off, I'm no ppump expert. I have had a sticking plunger before though and it did two things:
1) Rough idle/dying at idle
2) Misfiring/low power

If you've got the money and a spare vehicle, I'd recommend sending you pump in to be benched, and tested, then rebuilt if needed. If you have a barrel with wear, it can usually be buffed out and repaired. If you need a new barrel, you could look at repair or a used pump. 180 and 215 pumps are for sale on here all the time.
 
Signature600 said:
Explain to me how a sticking plunger wouldn't cause a miss? If it's stuck, it won't pump. If it is pump related, it should get worse as the oil warms up as things will expand and stick.

I never saw where you were anywhere close to 30* timing...I saw where you had it retarded to 330*, but not advanced to 30*...

Look, either it's not timed where you think it is, or something is wrong. Since you're using the pins to time it, you really don't know that they are accurate....I never time using pins, always find TDC and go from there marking the dampener.


But, since you're pointing out problems with every opinion that someone gives you, you obviously already know what it is....Just keep dumping $hit in your tank and maybe it will go away.
Chris
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I agree, and I didn't state it as such, but that is exactly what I'm getting at by pulling the manifold to actually see the exhaust. You will know immediately if it is a pump/line/nozzle issue, or something else.

I also agree about how many counter points are being offered for our suggestions.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
 
I only offer counter points to suggestions based on my observations and previous checks with this truck. Im not saying what you guys are suggesting is wrong, just that i dont think it is that.
I must say I am quite confident the static timing is where it should be, right around 15 deg. it just sounds "right" when warm. When i had it near 30 it vas a very pronounced hammering sound and the knocking was very loud if i laid into the fuel at lower rpms.
I can see retarded static timing causing lots of smoke, quiet running, poor mpg, but it would do so when cold or warm.
Since these pumps do not have any advance mechanisms, this is why i dont think its a static timing issue, as it doesnt really have problems when warm.


That being said, I will inspect the turbo again, and pull the intake tract off, those are quick and easy. pulling exhaust manifold..well that will probably require extracting some frozen and snapped studs most likely.

I will report back after the weekend with fuel pressure, results with intake tract off, turbo inspection for oil, as well as seeing if i can isolate it only on 1 cylinder. I do also have new valve stem seals and the tool for them..but that would be something to try if i cant isolate the smoke to 1 or 2 cylinders.

on that note, delivery valves have springs in them. could a sticky DV or weak DV spring cause these issues?

I do appreciate everyone's opinion and the promptness of your replies.
 
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I'll also add that I think it's your timing or you have something wrong with an injector or the pump.

What everyone's trying to tell you on your timing is that if you're doing something wrong, using the wrong lift, rotating the engine the wrong direction, whatever, then it would be wrong at what you think is 15* AND what you think is 30*. "Just SOUNDS right" isn't a good way to measure if it's correct.

Sometimes the obvious things are what we miss. We had a guy come in the shop once that had replaced his injectors and was having a hazing and missing issue. We told him he had a bad injector. He insisted his new injectors were good since they were new and acted like we didn't know what we were talking about. He had a bad "new" injector.
 
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im jumping the gun here again, but just hashing out ideas in my head

any chance it could be a GSK or AFC issue, or DV spring issue?

^Papa, i know what you mean with new parts being bad. I personally experienced bad injectors out of the box on my old IDI. got some new ones from a reputable shop and it ran great.
 
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Setting timing by "sounding right" lmfao!

I'm sorry but your issues basically point directly to retarded timing. Which I and other have told you numerous times, but your ear timing tool is more accurate than a timing tool.
 
dieselbeef said:
cornelious..just wondering..why not 2 stroke oil?
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Look at post 48.

I don't have any science to back it up. I've just seen a lot of injectors magically go bad and start leaking after having 2-stroke oil through them. It could be 100% coincidence. I just stick to #2 and additives for sulfur and gelling. :Cheer:
 
I would agree. We fight a a lot of fuel system issues, but none have ever been solved by dumping oil into the fuel.

Chris
 
BRE said:
Setting timing by "sounding right" lmfao!

I'm sorry but your issues basically point directly to retarded timing. Which I and other have told you numerous times, but your ear timing tool is more accurate than a timing tool.
Click to expand...

i mentioned a few times a have set and rechecked via pin timing and a degree wheel on the crank a few times.

i know pin timing isnt exactly 100% accurate as spill port, however as i also mentioned before, when i was near 30 deg, and i laid into the fuel at lower engine speeds there would be severe fuel knock and the engine was more difficult to cold start. pulling almost 15 deg out of it and starts like stock, and putting it to 12.5 deg as per the info plate it starts and sounds good. still has crispt throttle response adn good mileage.

still dont see how retarded static timing would cause intermittent no load stumble when revving it.

Im done babbling for today untill i do some tests on the weekend.
 
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Use a tuning tool... best advice I have. Because from what I'm reading, you don't truly know what you're setting it at.
 
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