Dual Cp3's or Stage 3 ??? Need help deciding

94ttss said:
Shane, if your goal is 900+ you should definately go duals. I'm running two stock dodge pumps with Flux 6.2's. Have not turned it up all the way yet but the two stockers seem to hang in there. Smarty on 5 stacked with some fuel from my vA C5 and I can still hold 27k.
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Awesome.. .Thank you!!!:rockwoot:
 
kai, You ever get your fp figured out. I hered you swapt bodies on sunday. I was the guy who gave you the fca on sat
 
COMP461 said:
A singles is so much less problem, and will make 900 on fuel, and 1100 on nitrous , what would you not keep it simple , with a mild tune , 900 + hp with 27,000 of rail pressure .


I have spun it over a 1000 and never seen the fuel drop below 26000 .



All this on a very conservative dyno
Again the problem is not in the pumps, but in the fact that a programmer has big limits, use an other methods to maximized rail pressure and not let the programmer pull back on rail pressure because of a quirk.
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Why are duals a problem? I had a buddy with twins and had a high pressure line break and he was still able to run the truck over 200 miles on one single pump and it didn't leave his stranded what if it was just a single pump and that happened?

Why not have two pumps working and 1/2 they're efficiency and reaching 27k than have one pump flowing at 100% and maxed out on potential...
 
HIGH TECH RAM said:
kai, You ever get your fp figured out. I hered you swapt bodies on sunday. I was the guy who gave you the fca on sat
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That fixed it, but still pulled the lift pump to 0 towards the end of the run with the Smarty on 5 and the vA stacked :bang. I've got another pump going in and we'll try again. Hopefully I can keep the head on. Thanks for your help.
 
here is the run from sat. the rail is 26.99 flat at 917 on a conserative dyno
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94ttss said:
That fixed it, but still pulled the lift pump to 0 towards the end of the run with the Smarty on 5 and the vA stacked :bang. I've got another pump going in and we'll try again. Hopefully I can keep the head on. Thanks for your help.
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hmmm which lift pump.. I seem to be havving issues with mine too... pm me if you want
 
Greg, I understand what the graph tells me but why would one want a pump that is maxed out and possibly overworked getting them sticks fuel when you can have two working 1/2 as hard? Doesn't that seem logistical???
 
are there advantages to running a dmax pump on top for the duals?...or does it matter...something to consider?
 
I don’t believe the pump is over worked or maxed out, the pump is the same one , that’s been on the truck for quite a while with a lot of miles. The problem is with two pumps you have twice as much to go wrong, and the chance the electronics will let the pumps fight each other is very possible.

This pump is nowhere close to the biggest that II dose, this is the 85% pump, Brady makes one much bigger , but I don’t need any more , if this had been on the any other dyno it would have been over 1050 hp. There are a lot of reasons not to put twins on, this is just the route I wanted to go. It’s just so much easier to bolt a pump on , and be done with it , and how many are wanting more than 1000 hp. There are way too many 600 hp twin cp3 truck, I think a lot of people get mislead ,

Kind of like telling someone to kill the signal to the CP3, REPEAT DO NOT EVER DO THAT , especially with a rail cap.
 
Bosch 044 pump. Great pump for up to 700hp or so. I like the fact that you can't here it running unlike some others. They seem to last forever also, this ones got about 70k miles on it.

I already have a spare one on the bench. I'm going to split the lines and install a second one, wire it into my PCS controller to come on under WOT. That way I'm not running all that fuel when I don't need it.
 
luvinacummins said:
Greg, I understand what the graph tells me but why would one want a pump that is maxed out and possibly overworked getting them sticks fuel when you can have two working 1/2 as hard? Doesn't that seem logistical???
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That does seem logical but you gota remember it dont mater how much fuel it is pumping, duals or a single, they are still spinning the same rpms. That is a good arguement but I dont know if I would let that make my decision. You know how I feel about it, but jus thought I would throw that out there. X rpms is X rpms, it dont matter if its one pump or 2. Ya dig?
 
Fuel ramp up would logically be faster with a dual pump. twice as many plungers.

The folks that went from a stage2 to duals, how much faster does the truck react to a sudden WOT. cruising at 15,000psi, how much less is the "dip" and how much faster does it recover and peg the gauge?

Maybe you should data log this Greggy-poo.
 
wap said:
That does seem logical but you gota remember it dont mater how much fuel it is pumping, duals or a single, they are still spinning the same rpms. That is a good arguement but I dont know if I would let that make my decision. You know how I feel about it, but jus thought I would throw that out there. X rpms is X rpms, it dont matter if its one pump or 2. Ya dig?
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The pumps are spinning the same rpm, true, however, the pressure with in each pump is 1/2. the FCA in each pump is letting in 1/2 the fuel to be put under pressure.

I think duals are a little cost ineffective over a stage3 nowadays for HP gained per $ spent. If I had the money for duals, I'd have to get duals and a new oem pump because apparently my oem pump was rather worn out. If you have 100,000 or more miles on the oem pump, you should consider replacing it. Mine was possibly running at 70% capacity, and still making 578hp with what HAS to be 50hp-ish sticks (not the 90's I though I had). It was holding 20K at WOT. Apparently, 90hp sticks with a NEW stock pump have issues holding 20K.

If your application is road/desert racing, like the FASS truck, I bet a dual setup is the only way to go for the constant on/off throttle movements. For a dragrace, you have time to get the rpm's up, and not only build boost, but rail pressure. Stage II is possibly, maybe enough, by why waste your time, just go with the stage3. If you have the money to blow, why not do dual :)
 
JasonCzerak said:
The pumps are spinning the same rpm, true, however, the pressure with in each pump is 1/2. the FCA in each pump is letting in 1/2 the fuel to be put under pressure.

I think duals are a little cost ineffective over a stage3 nowadays for HP gained per $ spent. If I had the money for duals, I'd have to get duals and a new oem pump because apparently my oem pump was rather worn out. If you have 100,000 or more miles on the oem pump, you should consider replacing it. Mine was possibly running at 70% capacity, and still making 578hp with what HAS to be 50hp-ish sticks (not the 90's I though I had). It was holding 20K at WOT. Apparently, 90hp sticks with a NEW stock pump have issues holding 20K.

If your application is road/desert racing, like the FASS truck, I bet a dual setup is the only way to go for the constant on/off throttle movements. For a dragrace, you have time to get the rpm's up, and not only build boost, but rail pressure. Stage II is possibly, maybe enough, by why waste your time, just go with the stage3. If you have the money to blow, why not do dual :)
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well I allready h ave another stock cp3 plus i can get dual cp3 kits for the same price as a stage 3 brand new... so i am essentially out nothing.. I can sell my stage 2 now as is and compensate alot of my cost to go do duals... I do like the cleanlyness of a single but i don't want to hit a wall again and have to make this decisian.. stage 4 or duals...:bang
 
I'll let you guys in on something. I get many core CP3's in, I also get alot in to be converted to a bigger CP3. Their are very few that are in good enough condition to modify, even some very low mileage units. The absolute killer to these pumps is water, dirt and low supply pressure.

A CP3 is designed to create pressure, in a dual setup both CP3's are working the same. Pressure does not mutiply, volume does. To make 20k+ psi, both pumps contribute close to equal pressures. The half load in duals is not true, maybe half volume per CP3, but that is all.

Dual kits have become affordable, just make sure you get very good CP3's for the kit, if you are replacing both. Two marginal used pumps might not equal a new big single.
 
JasonCzerak said:
Fuel ramp up would logically be faster with a dual pump. twice as many plungers.

The folks that went from a stage2 to duals, how much faster does the truck react to a sudden WOT. cruising at 15,000psi, how much less is the "dip" and how much faster does it recover and peg the gauge?

Maybe you should data log this Greggy-poo.
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I will try and log it , but the dyno is close to the same it jumps to 27000 instantly
 
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