Dual Cp3's or Stage 3 ??? Need help deciding

JasonCzerak said:
The pumps are spinning the same rpm, true, however, the pressure with in each pump is 1/2. the FCA in each pump is letting in 1/2 the fuel to be put under pressure.

I think duals are a little cost ineffective over a stage3 nowadays for HP gained per $ spent. If I had the money for duals, I'd have to get duals and a new oem pump because apparently my oem pump was rather worn out. If you have 100,000 or more miles on the oem pump, you should consider replacing it. Mine was possibly running at 70% capacity, and still making 578hp with what HAS to be 50hp-ish sticks (not the 90's I though I had). It was holding 20K at WOT. Apparently, 90hp sticks with a NEW stock pump have issues holding 20K.

If your application is road/desert racing, like the FASS truck, I bet a dual setup is the only way to go for the constant on/off throttle movements. For a dragrace, you have time to get the rpm's up, and not only build boost, but rail pressure. Stage II is possibly, maybe enough, by why waste your time, just go with the stage3. If you have the money to blow, why not do dual :)
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That is a good point, and I agree they are pushing half the volume. I was simply stateing that a lot of guys argue the half as much work thing, and they are pushing half the fuel, but still spinning at the same rpm as a single. That is what a lot of guys I know over look.

Piont is, when it comes to max fuel flow, duals are king. Even in a single can keep up with duals, all you got do is run modded duals and you are ahead again.
 
Guys, I had a modified single pump and now run duals, PPE, in my opinion there is no other option for those wanting more than 600 hp. Yes, you can get bigger numbers out of a single but at the expense of less fuel for lubrication and cooling of the pump. Return to fuel tank spec for a stock Cummins Bosch pump is 750 ml./minute. If you use the extra flow for the injectors the pump may suffer over the long haul. Even with dual pumps and 3.3 injectors I get a small dip when stabbing the throttle when running stock rail p. At WOT without using a pressure box I can only maintain 19-20 k rail p. Add some pressure via stand alone pressure box (power puck in my case) "only for dyno or serious racing" and r.p. hits 26 k and stays there and SOTP meter says probably an extra 70-100 hp just by raising the r.p. from 19 to 26k. This is with two new injection pumps, both with less than 12,000 miles, rail capped, and brand spanking new injectors installed meticulously, and within spec head to tank return flow so there is nothing mechanically awry. My recipe works. Jay
 
WICKEDDIESELS said:
I'll let you guys in on something. I get many core CP3's in, I also get alot in to be converted to a bigger CP3. Their are very few that are in good enough condition to modify, even some very low mileage units. The absolute killer to these pumps is water, dirt and low supply pressure.

A CP3 is designed to create pressure, in a dual setup both CP3's are working the same. Pressure does not mutiply, volume does. To make 20k+ psi, both pumps contribute close to equal pressures. The half load in duals is not true, maybe half volume per CP3, but that is all.

Dual kits have become affordable, just make sure you get very good CP3's for the kit, if you are replacing both. Two marginal used pumps might not equal a new big single.
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ohh the pressure thing sounds logical now that I ponder it a little. But the ramp up rate should increase in a dual vs single setup right? you can move twice as much "stuff".
 
Yeah, duals ramp up faster but with just rail p increase from the smarty the max rail p isn't increased from my experience and you need something to increase the max. All I know is I can't maintain above 20 K with any smarty combo of settings, but turn the power puck on low setting and rail gauge is glued to 26 K and hp is way up. I did extensively testing with smarty alone and managed to break the tires loose at 50 or so mph. Simply turning the puck on I can roast my clutch at will, dual disk 3600 lb. pressure plate and made 780 hp with a jacked up graph indicating clutch problems. Granted, there is something wrong with the clutch, but this is the baddest azz mo fo I have ever been in.
 
I felt a small gain in performance going from 20 to 24.5K with just dropping in Shanes pump. No pressure box. Said box is on it's way. :) I'm going to head back up to the dyno to crack 650 on paper and/or pop this PS62.

Shane, how about a little button on the floor, like the downshift button on European imports, wire one of them to break the connection to the FCA while WOT. That would be cool! :)
 
JasonCzerak said:
I felt a small gain in performance going from 20 to 24.5K with just dropping in Shanes pump. No pressure box. Said box is on it's way. :) I'm going to head back up to the dyno to crack 650 on paper and/or pop this PS62.

Shane, how about a little button on the floor, like the downshift button on European imports, wire one of them to break the connection to the FCA while WOT. That would be cool! :)
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Greg thinks you might blow something up, Dmax guys have been doing it for years. The question is, if you are above what the sensor will read, how do you actually know how much pressure you are making anyway.

You could use a WOT activation switch, well he could...My FCA's will flow all the necessary fuel to maintain RP levels, they don't need special programming.
 
COMP461 said:
The problem is with two pumps you have twice as much to go wrong, and the chance the electronics will let the pumps fight each other is very possible.
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... that's why we make a 304SS Faraday Cage for our twin CP3 installs - gives the pumps' bits & bytes a safe place to duke out their grudge matches. :kick:
 
EPA Violator said:
Guys, I had a modified single pump and now run duals, PPE, in my opinion there is no other option for those wanting more than 600 hp. Yes, you can get bigger numbers out of a single but at the expense of less fuel for lubrication and cooling of the pump. Return to fuel tank spec for a stock Cummins Bosch pump is 750 ml./minute. If you use the extra flow for the injectors the pump may suffer over the long haul. Even with dual pumps and 3.3 injectors I get a small dip when stabbing the throttle when running stock rail p. At WOT without using a pressure box I can only maintain 19-20 k rail p. Add some pressure via stand alone pressure box (power puck in my case) "only for dyno or serious racing" and r.p. hits 26 k and stays there and SOTP meter says probably an extra 70-100 hp just by raising the r.p. from 19 to 26k. This is with two new injection pumps, both with less than 12,000 miles, rail capped, and brand spanking new injectors installed meticulously, and within spec head to tank return flow so there is nothing mechanically awry. My recipe works. Jay
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Mind if I ask what turbos you are runnin?
 
Shane I guess you also have to consider sled pulling. Some places require only 1 cp3? So if you want to sled pull maybe 1 cp3 is the way to go.
 
LC

Im runnirng duals, stage 3 up top,stage 2 on bottom for now. They work great now, but ive had my fair share of problems. Ive blown up 2 stage 3's with this set up. At one time the truck had one stage 3 on it so i dont think the 1 pump will get you their. If you go that with 1 i would go with an 85 over. Witch ever way you go do your research and listen to all these guy then make your choice. Because in the end its your truck, keep in mind with big HP comes break down to some degree.
 
JasonCzerak said:
Shane, how about a little button on the floor, like the downshift button on European imports, wire one of them to break the connection to the FCA while WOT. That would be cool! :)
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What would this do? Im not to familiar of the working of the CP3.
 
COMP461 said:
A singles is so much less problem, and will make 900 on fuel, and 1100 on nitrous , what would you not keep it simple , with a mild tune , 900 + hp with 27,000 of rail pressure .
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Prove it!! Post the graph!!:doh:

And by the way, you don't need 27K psi rail pressure to make 900:doh:


I have spun it over a 1000 and never seen the fuel drop below 26000 .



All this on a very conservative dyno
Again the problem is not in the pumps, but in the fact that a programmer has big limits, use an other methods to maximized rail pressure and not let the programmer pull back on rail pressure because of a quirk.
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Enough with the "very conservative dyno" crap*bdh* If that was, in your words, "your first dyno event" and the "same dyno I always use", you have no reference:doh:

Programmer pull back on rail pressure?? :confused: Maybe if your $hit wasn't such a hacked together piece of crap you wouldn't have all these "quirks" :shrug: LOL



COMP461 said:
here is the run from sat. the rail is 26.99 flat at 917 on a conserative dyno
ScreenShot004.jpg
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Again, enough with the "conservative dyno" excuse everytime you post:bang

I know you think you are special and the ONLY one that datalogs runs, but you are not:what:

A datalog of mine below of a 878 hp FUEL ONLY dyno pull condradicts every single point you are trying so desperatly to make in this thread:doh:

COMP461 said:
I don’t believe the pump is over worked or maxed out, the pump is the same one , that’s been on the truck for quite a while with a lot of miles. The problem is with two pumps you have twice as much to go wrong, and the chance the electronics will let the pumps fight each other is very possible.
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Please explain Ole' Wise One??..................This ought to be good:hehe:


This pump is nowhere close to the biggest that II dose, this is the 85% pump, Brady makes one much bigger , but I don’t need any more , if this had been on the any other dyno it would have been over 1050 hp.
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Whats that........at least the 4th or 5th time in this thread alone you felt the need to mention how "conservative" it is?:hehe: If you can make 1050 hp......show the graph!!

There are a lot of reasons not to put twins on, this is just the route I wanted to go. It’s just so much easier to bolt a pump on , and be done with it , and how many are wanting more than 1000 hp. There are way too many 600 hp twin cp3 truck, I think a lot of people get mislead ,
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You should know!!!! Because you are at the head of the "misleading" pack!!:kick:


COMP461 said:
oh the lack of RPM graph . I blanked out the RPM graph to keep some things to myself .
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Only one of two reasons. Either it didn't run up that high which proves you don't have the programming you think you do, or it did which proves you STOLE the programming:doh:





Below is a datalog of a 878 hp fuel only pull on the dyno. This is with dual STOCK CP3's, Smarty TNT Race on 9 and NO pressure box. And since I don't need to hide my BS :rolleyes:, you can see that it was pulled to 4081 RPM. ;)

You DON'T NEED 26K+ of rail pressure to make that kind of power!! You just need to keep it around 22K and have enough FLOW!! In fact, you can see that the only time the rail sensor was maxed was on the pressure spike when the throttle was let off.

White = RPM
Red = Rail Pressure (x 1K)
Green = MPH
Grey = Throttle Posistion





Personally, I would go with duals ;)
 

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