dual feed, cont.

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i did not call him what ever you tried to say i did. was just being my normal retarded self and joking around with his nick name. wish everyone was req to use their real name so one would know who they were talking to. rich and i have been messaging back n forth, even after the grudge race was cancelled, so i doubt he thinks i am a 'moron'. i am sorry if i come across as a 'know it all'. i surely dont feel like one. and i try to keep an open mind so that i can learn stuff about the things i love, diesel engines being one of them

the pump just got shipped like 5 mins ago (thanks ken) and i will start posting pix as soon as it arrives

*oh, rich posted as i was typing the above i guess....yes, i will post pix and diagrams and numbers as i get them. we could start with a diagram of the flow of the pumps that are fed the way i disagree with
 
8stagnant.jpg


this is how i see the volume of fuel moving thru your pumps, the pumps plumbed front and real and returned out of the ofv location

do you think it be better to use both front ports as supply and return out of the stock inlet?

what would be the downfall of plumbing it that way?

ps - suprised that no one answered the question about about volume with it plumbed as shown above
 
I see a pretty easy way to settle this...I think.

Someone with an old pump laying around could plumb it the various ways in question, measure the inlet pressure as well as the outlet pressure...and probably settle this arguement.
 
DTanklage said:
8stagnant.jpg


this is how i see the volume of fuel moving thru your pumps, the pumps plumbed front and real and returned out of the ofv location

do you think it be better to use both front ports as supply and return out of the stock inlet?

what would be the downfall of plumbing it that way?

ps - suprised that no one answered the question about about volume with it plumbed as shown above
Click to expand...

I do not think it is better to use both front ports. If that setup was used, then we are back at the topic of fuel density toward the back of the pump.

I also see a non-ideal situation/potential problem where you have two fuel inlets intersecting each other at 90 degrees.

Edit: Also, I do not see how the fuel coming through the front port makes that hard 90 into the outlet.
 
you dont see it making a hard 90° turn and exiting but you think having both inlets there 90° from one another could be a problem?

please elaborate


rich, its not about pressure as much as flow

volume

keeping the cool fuel moving past the barrels

pressure is equal and opposite (the same) throughout the pump
 
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DTanklage said:
you dont see it making a hard 90° turn and exiting but you think having both inlets there 90° from one another could be a problem?

please elaborate

keeping the cool fuel moving past the barrels
Click to expand...

If you have the pump fed from the stock location and the front port, I only see the fuel making that hard 90 (potentially) when the OFV is doing its job to keep the pressure in check. I do not see it doing that under high fuel demand which in reality is when you would need a dual feed.

If you are feeding both ports in the front with what I will call the same pressure all the time (during low demand and high demand), I do see the fuel coming in through the front interfering with the fuel coming in where the OFV is.

How is your setup dealing with keeping the fuel cool?
 
none of us that are concerned with this use the ofv. we all route the fuel thru the pump, thru a bypass regulator, and back to tank. does the same thing as the ofv, keeps pressure in the pump but hopefully we are moving more fuel thru the pump for cooling and more power (cool fuel is power)

the fuel is just liquid under pressure and looking for a way out

the fittings for these pumps are only .370 id or basically 3/8". once you get the pump to a certain point you can not push enough fuel thru a 3/8 hole to keep pressure in the pump so you have to add a second fitting. the two holes could be adjoining and it would make no difference. unless of course you were using one for an inlet and one for an outlet

mine will keep the fuel cool with 2 supply lines ea doing 50% of the work. ea supplying 100% of the volume to 3 barrels

8masterdesign.jpg
 
DTanklage said:
none of us that are concerned with this use the ofv. we all route the fuel thru the pump, thru a bypass regulator, and back to tank. does the same thing as the ofv, keeps pressure in the pump but hopefully we are moving more fuel thru the pump for cooling and more power (cool fuel is power)

the fuel is just liquid under pressure and looking for a way out

the fittings for these pumps are only .370 id or basically 3/8". once you get the pump to a certain point you can not push enough fuel thru a 3/8 hole to keep pressure in the pump so you have to add a second fitting. the two holes could be adjoining and it would make no difference. unless of course you were using one for an inlet and one for an outlet

mine will keep the fuel cool with 2 supply lines ea doing 50% of the work. ea supplying 100% of the volume to 3 barrels

8masterdesign.jpg
Click to expand...

OFV or external regulator makes no difference - I was simply using that term to refer to the port on the head side of the pump. If the fuel is not moving out through the return line - through the OFV or to the external regulator, I disagree that the fuel will make that 90. Fuel will be leaving the the p-pump when the pressure reaches whatever pressure the fuel system is set up for and only then will the fuel do what you are concerned about.

I do agree with your statements on the necessity for a dual feed when there is not enough volume.

I am curious to see how you are feeding the back side of the pump. I also do agree that the fuel would be heated less if you could feed the front port and somehow set the pump up with a port on the opposite face of the pump with the return in the middle.
 
I have a question for DTanklage! In what HP range is this mod going to be beneficial or be needed to make more power?
 
Just from observation here, I don't think this mod will ever make more power, BUT it may make a 13mm pump survive street duty.
 
LReiff said:
I have a question for DTanklage !

In what HP range is this mod going to be beneficial or be needed to make more power ?
Click to expand...

i do not know for sure. not sure it will produce more power, although i think it might. but thats not the reason i am doing it to my pump. if it makes more power thats just a fringe benifit

why did you vote 'no' on the poll?
 
j-rod said:
I disagree that the fuel will make that 90. Fuel will be leaving the the p-pump when the pressure reaches whatever pressure the fuel system is set up for and only then will the fuel do what you are concerned about.

I do agree that the fuel would be heated less if you could feed the front port and somehow set the pump up with a port on the opposite face of the pump with the return in the middle.
Click to expand...

so none of the fuel coming in the front plug is returned, only the fuel coming in thru the stock location?

if cool dense fuel is power do you think my set up is gonna make more power?
 
Funny that this thread came up again.

There are a few interesting things that I see....

With equal and sufficient pressure through out the pump controled by OFV or regulator, I see Dons point.

It would seem reasonable that a properly set up fuel supply would have a continous overflow for cooling purposes regardless of the load. If that was always the case we would not have a drop in fuel pressure that many see under load. So it seems that a good number of individuals might not have the ideal volume in the first place and this is where I see the dual feed doing the job.

When the load (fuel demand) is high and the pump PSI drops, the OFV or reg closes to try and maintain that set PSI. At this time the front fuel feed supplies the needed volume that the load is obviously demanding (hence the drop in PSI)... The OFV or reg is closed waiting to recover, so in this state the path of fuel dictates that it is ALL going to the plungers fed from both ends!

Now when the PSI recovers were back to the front feed flowing a greater volume out or egual to what the barrels are cunsuming from the rear fuel supply. At this point the front feed is still accomplishing some cooling, but so what... we are not under full load anymore. And just going out on a limb here... Full load fuel supply is what we are most concerned with in competition!

Mark
 
with a 150 gph pump do you think at full load the regulator is closed and there is no fuel returning to the tank?

how about with two 200 gph pumps?
 
DTanklage said:
so none of the fuel coming in the front plug is returned, only the fuel coming in thru the stock location?

if cool dense fuel is power do you think my set up is gonna make more power?
Click to expand...

No...I didn't say that. I am saying that I disagree with your theory about the problem with feeding the front port.

I think your setup would potentially supply cooler fuel than the conventional method.
 
okay so fuel from each is going out the return (if we have enough pump infront of this thing and the reg is not closed at wot)

what % of fuel going out the return came in thru the stock location?
 
I seriously doubt that Dtanklage has any solid proof to show his pump "theory" is any better than current duel feed design. I am however curious to see how this turns out. I've seen "innovators" like this before (SPEAKSUP) and it did not end well. I do however think this is a win win, either Dtanklage shows the rookies (CompD) on how to properly fuel a P-Pump, or the outcome difference is minimal at best and the shame is too much for the theorist to muddy up threads with useless I'm been here done that information any longer. No offense to any one. Carry on gentlemen. $.02
 
And so there's the other factor... with that kind of flow the recycle rate would be quite high? Hard to imagine there would be a density issue in the first place!

Then again... Can't recall the last time I read a thread entitled "I have too much PSI at WOT". Could have missed it.
DTanklage said:
with a 150 gph pump do you think at full load the regulator is closed and there is no fuel returning to the tank?

how about with two 200 gph pumps?
Click to expand...
 
Turbo Performance said:
I seriously doubt that Dtanklage has any solid proof to show his pump "theory" is any better than current duel feed design. I am however curious to see how this turns out. I've seen "innovators" like this before (SPEAKSUP) and it did not end well. I do however think this is a win win, either Dtanklage shows the rookies (CompD) on how to properly fuel a P-Pump, or the outcome difference is minimal at best and the shame is too much for the theorist to muddy up threads with useless I'm been here done that information any longer. No offense to any one. Carry on gentlemen. $.02
Click to expand...

My sentiments exactly! :Cheer: Thank-you Turbo Performance!
 
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