Exhaust pipe bolts---work stock class

McRat said:
Just in case you WEREN'T trying to help the guy, here's another comedy pic, concerning your silly comments on multiple driveshaft hoops on all trucks.

Note that the truck is on a LIFT right now. And when you hook up, it pulls the back down. The only threat that rear joint poses is for killing gophers, and regardless of what Hillary says, they aren't an endangered species. The only way for the driveshaft or Ujoints can injure somebody is if they puncture the bed of the truck first. It's a GMC working truck so the bed is steel.
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I know I've spoken my mind before regarding these loops plus other safety equipment and there's a very real reason why I'm cautious.

July 16th, 2006. Franklin County Fair pull in my hometown of Hilliard, OH. 1996 GMC 3500 CC Dually hooks to the sled. At about the 160' mark, the truck bounces and immediately breaks the rear-most u-joint. Just like your truck, I couldn't see the u-joint from where I was sitting in the stands. However, the u-joint cap broke, leaves the truck, skips on the ground about 10' away from the truck and heads directly towards the grandstands in a split second. It then cleared a 3' jersey wall, a 5' snow fence and smashes into a 1.5" diameter railing about 10' off the ground at the front of the grand stand and leaves a 1/2" dent in the metal railing. If it wouldn't have hit the railing, someone would have one less family member since Mike's wife and two-year-old were in the line of fire, sitting right behind that rail.

That could have been prevented by the proper safety equipment. You may find the sled pulling rules biased or even weird, but there's good reason for all of them. Please don't skimp on safety equipment even if you think it's silly and 'there's no way it could ever happen to me'.
 
I took my down pipe out and put them in right after the turbo, before the bend, when I had the single turbo. I drilled the holes so the bolts were very tight to put in. How much smoke can really leak around them anyways? Not enough to even matter IMO. I have seen most of the d-max guy putting them in the pipe under the truck. With my twins I put them in the pipe under the truck as BWD made to new down pipe to pretty with the ceramic coating and I did not want to mess the coating up. Basically under the front passenger seat.
 
joefarmer said:
I know I've spoken my mind before regarding these loops plus other safety equipment and there's a very real reason why I'm cautious.

July 16th, 2006. Franklin County Fair pull in my hometown of Hilliard, OH. 1996 GMC 3500 CC Dually hooks to the sled. At about the 160' mark, the truck bounces and immediately breaks the rear-most u-joint. Just like your truck, I couldn't see the u-joint from where I was sitting in the stands. However, the u-joint cap broke, leaves the truck, skips on the ground about 10' away from the truck and heads directly towards the grandstands in a split second. It then cleared a 3' jersey wall, a 5' snow fence and smashes into a 1.5" diameter railing about 10' off the ground at the front of the grand stand and leaves a 1/2" dent in the metal railing. If it wouldn't have hit the railing, someone would have one less family member since Mike's wife and two-year-old were in the line of fire, sitting right behind that rail.

That could have been prevented by the proper safety equipment. You may find the sled pulling rules biased or even weird, but there's good reason for all of them. Please don't skimp on safety equipment even if you think it's silly and 'there's no way it could ever happen to me'.
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Well, somebody needs to explain to me how the risk dissolves by running a 2.8 charger, which could even be on a lifted truck. If it's a danger, then make the rule.
 
McRat said:
Well, somebody needs to explain to me how the risk dissolves by running a 2.8 charger, which could even be on a lifted truck. If it's a danger, then make the rule.
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Dunno what rule is being referred to there, but I do know that most sanctioning bodies post 'minimum' requirements. I've always went over minimum on the safety equipment because it's in my best interests to keep my spectators and myself safe.
 
Begle1 said:
It isn't that it's work to put in the bolts, it's that it's exhaust restriction to put in the bolts. So there's a slight benefit to faking it.
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Exhaust restriction????? PLEASE, come on it's 2-3/8" bolts! I think even the term "slight" is an over exaggeration.:blahblah1:

McRat said:
Yes, it is a 10 minute on a Cummins. But this is a Dmax owner asking the question.

Bet you can't even remove the stock down pipe on a Dmax in 2 hrs. Heck, I bet it takes you 10 minutes to FIND it. :D

Just drill a hole is OK for trailer queens but if you plan on putting over 20,000 miles on your truck, it won't do. The holes get larger and larger as time goes on, you get the oily soot everywhere, and eventually it fails entirely anyhow.

The Dmax is the newcomer to sledpulling, so most the rules are based on the experience of Dodge guys.

But it's now been 7 years, so it's time for the Dodge guys to take a look at other trucks before saying what is what. Not everything has a Goat glued to it anymore.

The factory downpipe is a VERY tight fit in all three axis. The trans tube, clamp, risers, oil drain, charger, shield, firewall, A/C all make it near impossible to remove that tube. It can be done, but it's a very, very tight fit. There is not extra room there for anything.

I'm sure you're trying to be helpful, but please understand they asked the question because they did not know the answer, so saying "IT'S GRAVY I CAN DO IT IN 10!!" is pretty pointless since nobody on Earth has.
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Hey Pat what does "as close to the turbo as possible" mean? That means AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE! It doesn't mean they have to be .000000037" from the exhaust housing! If in the bottom of the downpipe is "as close as possible" then put them there and stop complaining. You may be right the turbine wheel might not be able to make it through the downpipe but if the rules say they need to be there, then put them there or stay home.

I know you have a hard time understanding simple things but I said (I'll quote it again)
jfaulkner said:
drill 2 holes all the way through the pipe (both sides) stick 2 long bolts through and weld both ends of each.
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Now explain to me what makes the difference if the truck is on the trailer, or pulling it, when the holes are welded shut?

To put it plain and simple Pat. If you don't like the rules THEN DON'T PULL!!!!! I'm sure there are enough people in that class that you won't be missed. What you seem to forget is it only takes one "freak" accident to ruin the fun for everyone else.
 
Yea Pat, just think of the little kids life you just ruined because you are to lazy to drill 2 holes and install 2 bolts and a couple of loops. I get tired of hearing its a daily driver, so what when it hits the track its now a pulling truck make it fit the rules. DOT doesnt care when they inspect your truck to be road worthy, if it doesnt have all the saftey stuff it gets rejected. people like you shouldn't be allowed to pull your only worried about how hard it is to install and how much effort it takes, not the people you might hurt. Stick to drag racing we dont need people like this in pulling.
 
lubeowner said:
I took my down pipe out and put them in right after the turbo, before the bend, when I had the single turbo. I drilled the holes so the bolts were very tight to put in.
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Looks like when I change out my exhaust, I will go ahead and install it in the down pipe. I will probably use the bungs like mentioned earler but all this is reall good information.

Thanks guys.

P.S. Lets not turn this into a pissing contest.
 
DISTURBED said:
Yea Pat, just think of the little kids life you just ruined because you are to lazy to drill 2 holes and install 2 bolts and a couple of loops. I get tired of hearing its a daily driver, so what when it hits the track its now a pulling truck make it fit the rules. DOT doesnt care when they inspect your truck to be road worthy, if it doesnt have all the saftey stuff it gets rejected. people like you shouldn't be allowed to pull your only worried about how hard it is to install and how much effort it takes, not the people you might hurt. Stick to drag racing we dont need people like this in pulling.
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Mine is drilled/crossbolted, thank you very much, but I'm not Work Stock, I'm 750 HP.

Think Work Stock. Think Chevrolet design.

GM OEM Investment casting is far safer that two little bolts in a 4" pipe are. You allow bigger objects to pass than a 1.5" flat pipe does.

It ain't Dodge. The turbine wheel cannot exit. It is physically 110% impossible. You cannot take any amount of force and get it to pass a wheel EVEN WITH NO BLADES LEFT.

Look at the picture.

But what I'm saying is to put the bolts right after the downpipe on a GM.

That is a close as is practical.

It might be pointless, but that's where you need to do it.
 
DISTURBED said:
Yea Pat, just think of the little kids life you just ruined because you are to lazy to drill 2 holes and install 2 bolts and a couple of loops. I get tired of hearing its a daily driver, so what when it hits the track its now a pulling truck make it fit the rules. DOT doesnt care when they inspect your truck to be road worthy, if it doesnt have all the saftey stuff it gets rejected. people like you shouldn't be allowed to pull your only worried about how hard it is to install and how much effort it takes, not the people you might hurt. Stick to drag racing we dont need people like this in pulling.
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Basically, you folk give exclusions for safety rules to your buddies or sponsors equipment, but scream everyone else should comply.

I've never asked for or demanded exclusions or custom rules. That's purely Dodge Country.

But if a rule is silly, I'm not going to lie about it.
 
Im not turning this into a pissing match, but here is the thing you say it's 110% impossible, it is only impossible because it hasnt happened yet, but when it does guess what it is to late and somebody gets hurt and you change somebodies life that they had nothing to do with anything but watching the pull. Crazier things have happened trust me i have been in pulling for many years and have seen things that are absolutlly impossible happen. And here is the last thing if you dont have the bolts and you FAKE them and the wheel does come out and does kill a person, you are liable for man slaughter because you dont have all the saftey stuff and the pulls insurance wont cover the truck or you in a lawsuit.
 
I dont see how cross bolts are a "Dodge thing". Is it because they are the only ones making enough power to blow a turbo?

if you make a saftey rule it applies to EVERYONE, you cant start letting GM's get by just because they have a flat downpipe. In other words rules can not start be made "Make Specific" I.E. "All Trucks must have 3/8ths cross bolts Except for Any Duramax and Maby some 94-97 Powerstrokes that have a stock Downpipe made before the date of 12/97". :bang :umno:

Work stock is about a dangerous class as it gets really, think about it. You have guys running way to small of a turbo with tons of fuel pushin the hell out of it. Some of them are 550hp+ maby even 600hp. Does that not warrant some reasonable safty equipment? Many are also more inexperiance drivers not knowing when to let out of something. I have seen guys ride a single disc clutch till the flywheel explodes sending redhot shrapnel into the stands. That wouldnt happen in a 2.8 class.

Stop *****in and protect the fans.
 
joefarmer said:
Dunno what rule is being referred to there, but I do know that most sanctioning bodies post 'minimum' requirements. I've always went over minimum on the safety equipment because it's in my best interests to keep my spectators and myself safe.
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:clap: :bow: :clap: :bow: :clap:
 
We can make 500+ rwhp with a Work Stock Dmax without taking the charger into the red zone. If you can't pull without overspeeding your charger, you shouldn't run your truck. It's dangerous, since fires, runaways, and flying/exploding compressors aren't OSHA approved.

Best way to insure safety is to set your vehicle up safely, not rely on parachutes.

Keep your charger from going out of it's map would be a good start.

A larger steel ball can pass through a 4" tube with two 3/8th bolts in it, than can pass through a Dmax downpipe. Whether that agrees with your philosophy or religion is somewhat pointless. It's pure physics.

But due to the location, shape, and surrounding equipment, it is impractical to put two 3/8" bolts at 90° to each other in the factory Dmax downpipe. It is better to put them at what MBRP and the other exhaust companies call a "downpipe" which is actually an intermediate pipe.

But regardless of how many times I say it, I doubt any Dodge guys will understand the physics of it. It's pretty complicated.
 
Please remember I’m talking about the entry level Work Stock class only.
The rules state that if you still have a stock exhaust you don’t need the bolts. But if you have modified the exhaust then you do. The rules don’t seem too concerned about the stock pipe until you remove the restrictions, replace those restrictions with bolts in the same spot should be good enough, right?
It sure would be nice if we could get an official answer now. The tech line at the next event could get very long and slow if we aren’t all on the same page. I want to get in the tech line knowing I’ll pass, not to ask a question…
I’m not trying to get around the rules, I’m just trying to figure out what I need to do.
 
I agree, but Patrick has pretty much answered where it should be placed on a d-max and for Power Strokes and Cummins, it seems pretty straight forward from everyones reponce. Right where the down pipe is.
 
McRat said:
We can make 500+ rwhp with a Work Stock Dmax without taking the charger into the red zone. If you can't pull without overspeeding your charger, you shouldn't run your truck. It's dangerous, since fires, runaways, and flying/exploding compressors aren't OSHA approved.

Best way to insure safety is to set your vehicle up safely, not rely on parachutes.

Keep your charger from going out of it's map would be a good start.

But regardless of how many times I say it, I doubt any Dodge guys will understand the physics of it. It's pretty complicated.
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You just killed your own arguement, yes it can be done w/o taking a charger into the redzone, but not everyone is as smart as you so someone will blow a charger trying to get every last ouce out of it. As long as Pullers will be pulling they will try and get every bit of power out of thier truck to get ahead. That is why everyone needs safty equipment cause there is always someone that will ruin it for everyone else. Not to mention crap happens as well.
 
McRat said:
Just in case you WEREN'T trying to help the guy, here's another comedy pic, concerning your silly comments on multiple driveshaft hoops on all trucks.

Note that the truck is on a LIFT right now. And when you hook up, it pulls the back down. The only threat that rear joint poses is for killing gophers, and regardless of what Hillary says, they aren't an endangered species. The only way for the driveshaft or Ujoints can injure somebody is if they puncture the bed of the truck first. It's a GMC working truck so the bed is steel.
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Wow, tell me you didnt just say that:bang

A ujoint has a bunch of tiny needles in each cap, and the caps themselves would be like big bullets coming at someone if they came out from under the truck in the right direction. Can we not use some common sense here, and put some safety devices on this "big bad d-max"
 
Cummins Driver said:
Wow, tell me you didnt just say that:bang

A ujoint has a bunch of tiny needles in each cap, and the caps themselves would be like big bullets coming at someone if they came out from under the truck in the right direction. Can we not use some common sense here, and put some safety devices on this "big bad d-max"
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You guys really can't read well.

If I put on an Aurora 5000, it removes the danger of U-Joint breakage according to you folk. I don't believe it for one second.

So an A5000 truck with no driveshafts hoops and a 12" lift is safer by far than a truck with 2 driveshaft hoops that has the axle hidden, who has a GT42.

Bullshiit. I won't buy that no matter what anyone claims. It's pure BS.

But like I've always said, it's the rules, so if I want to run, I will run legal, instead of making a backroom deal for a hidden waver for just my truck.
 
To answer the original post, quite a few rulesets have it phrased " as close as practical" or " as close as possible" to the turbo. If the intermediate pipe is as close as you can get, that is probably fine. If you can get it in the downpipe, better. Both should get you through tech with a pat on the back.

Make a good effort, and be honest with the tech guys. They're just trying to keep everyone safe.
 
McRat said:
You guys really can't read well.

If I put on an Aurora 5000, it removes the danger of U-Joint breakage according to you folk. I don't believe it for one second.

So an A5000 truck with no driveshafts hoops and a 12" lift is safer by far than a truck with 2 driveshaft hoops that has the axle hidden, who has a GT42.

Bullshiit. I won't buy that no matter what anyone claims. It's pure BS.

But like I've always said, it's the rules, so if I want to run, I will run legal, instead of making a backroom deal for a hidden waver for just my truck.
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Wow, all I can say is wow!:1tooth: :banghead: :homo:
 
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