F650 cummins

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CRAZY
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May 24, 2007
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so the cummins in the f650 is the same as that found in the dodge, besides the absence of some smog equipment, a slightly different tune, and an allison transmission right?
does anyone know if like an 02 f650 cummins would have the same engine as the 02 dodge cummins or are they an older engine, 12V or something in the early 2000's? does it go common rail in 03 or ever? anyone know the similarities and differences?
ive done some searches and it appears the current production f650 cummins are common rail and going to the 6.7 just like the dodge...

on the other hand has anyone ever tinkered on the cat that comes in the f650? any crazy compound turbo set ups on that? lol.

im planning on getting an early 2000's f650, not sure the exact years im looking for because im not sure the differences yet, crew cab service truck of some kind and doing the pickup thing to it. i want to do a 4wd conversion set the whole thing on rockwell 2 1/2 ton axles and 4 link it

anyone seen this video? http://darkforcez.com/f650.wmv
the train horns always fun, used to have one on my big superduty

well if anyone knows anything about these cummins or can link me to any info id be very appreciative. i want to do a crazy compound turbo set up, maybe get into exhibition sled pulls cuz the weight class is never going to work with it, lol.
 
Up to 03 F650's had the same VP equipped CTD as the 98.5-02 Dodge trucks, there were differences of course, but same basic engine.

On the CAT motor, good motors, but from what I understand getting extra power out of them is NOT cheap.
 
Billysgoat said:
Up to 03 F650's had the same VP equipped CTD as the 98.5-02 Dodge trucks, there were differences of course, but same basic engine.

On the CAT motor, good motors, but from what I understand getting extra power out of them is NOT cheap.
Click to expand...

Yep, getting more MEOW out of a kitty is generally an expensive process..
 
Alright, so the engines are the same for the most part,
what about the transmissions? the allison automatic? anyone doing anything with these? are they found in other vehicles? is there anyway it could be built at a reasonable cost to handle 900+hp in something as big as the f650? or should i just forget it and go manual?
I want the auto, i mean i think the manual would be cool, 6 or 7 speed, **** i could even through a rockwell air splitter in there as the transfer case when i convert to 4wd, but i dont have my license at this point and time.... so it would mostly be other driving the vehicle besides me...
are the electronics going to be the same? like would something for the dodge work on this truck or would i have to change the ecu and wiring over to get that to work? or do they make stuff for the f650 cummins?
 
I have no idea if they went to CR in 04 or not, I drove an 03 with the Cummins so I know up to that point what they were.

Anything you get for the motor will need to have the RV plugs on it, I don't know if Edge or TST makes any of the really hot boxes for it, but I feel certain they could.

900HP?? Out of a VP44?? LOL LOL LOL LOL

The tranny used in the 650 is an Allison series 2000, IIRC, Suncoast has some heavy HP stuff for them, not sure though.

Shoot for about 450HP, with the kind of weight you will be moving you are gonna hit an EGT wall real quick.
 
Billysgoat said:
Anything you get for the motor will need to have the RV plugs on it, I don't know if Edge or TST makes any of the really hot boxes for it, but I feel certain they could.

900HP?? Out of a VP44?? LOL LOL LOL LOL

The tranny used in the 650 is an Allison series 2000, IIRC, Suncoast has some heavy HP stuff for them, not sure though.
Click to expand...

Can you change all the electrical over to the dodge stuff? I know it would be about as complicated as a complete engine swap but programers would be easier wouldnt they? maybe just have problems getting the guages to work. manual trans so thats not an issue...

vp44 cant you just change to a modded P pump or something?

If i go manual to save some $$$ for engine mods, Id be more interested in lower egts and faster spool than 900hp+
but 700hp would be fun =)

of the manual transmissions which one would be strongest?
5 6 or 7 speed? Id like the 7 speed but if it wont hold together with that power and weight it wouldnt be worth the trouble...

does the CAT truck use the same manual transmissions? would a cummins bolt up? engine mounts? maybe just get a 2000 CAT, manual and swap a common rail cummins in there with all the dodge electrical??? would it be worth the trouble??
 
Ooooookay...school time :D

The Cummins motor used in the 650 is a "drop in" motor and basically is a stand alone system, what you will need to do is get in touch with Edge, TST, TS Performance, or Quadzilla and talk with them on what they can do with this version of the 5.9 since it will be the Cummins software that needs fooling.

P-Pumped 24V's are not well known for great street manners from what I have heard, it's an option true, but not the one I would take. You problem with this vehicle and high HP is gonna be EGT's, not making the power itself. Put it like this, I don't tow 10k with everything maxed out, can't keep it cool enough to live. That's what you will be fighting here.

Which 6 or 7 speed?? The NV5600 is good up to about 450HP continuous, more for short periods, but it won't live to long in a 650 at that power, to much thrust load on it. Research the various Eaton's and Rockwell's in the 6-9 spd range, look at Torque ratings for the tranny. If it has a rating of under 1000ftlbs it's marginal for a high performance application.

Tranny should be the same twixt engines in the same chassis to the best of my knowledge.

To me the best bet would be a swap to an 8.3 Cummins and mod the heck out if it, if you want it to last. Bigger, more comfortable motor to move that much weight.
 
partsguy662 said:
Yep, getting more MEOW out of a kitty is generally an expensive process..
Click to expand...


only with the baby Cats, but they suck anyway. Those 650's have the 3126 right? Junk.

Our mechanical C16 has plenty of meow...
 
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Like Billy said....Go with the 8.3. However, the 2000 series Allison would be a baaaad choice with that much weight and TQ pushing it. Find out how much HP/TQ you can make and call Allison. I'm betting that a 4000 is what you'll need....but I don't know if it'll marry to the 8.3?
 
Any information on performance mods, or a set of twins on a 8.3?
that displacement should help alot with egt's right?
what fuel mileage do the 8.3 equipped RV's and buses get?
The f650's from 2000 till now came in 5 6 or 7 speed manuals on both cummins CAT and powerstroke models...
 
I forgot to mention..... You may end up 'without' a parking pawl. If you can find an Allison dealer, go there. Look at the case sizes and make a mental note of how large the clutch packs are, especially first gear. ;)
 
No parking pawl is okay, if i go with an automatic...
but i think a manual would be cheaper right? and it would keep me from trying to get some crazy high hp numbers cuz for street driving id need faster spool, although im sure that 8.3 could spool anything really fast...
so what information do you guys have the the 8.3? bolt up to trans? engine mounts? same rv electrical?????
could i get 600hp out of it without doing engine internals, maybe head work and gasket?
i think the 8.3 would be a fun swap =)
might decide on putting more money into the engine than the suspension... lol
 
You should be able to bolt the 8.3 up to just about any manual tranny on the market (for medium/heavy duty trucks) since it's been used in just about every make and model out there. If you acquire a tranny that will not bolt up to it a bellhousing swap is about all that's needed. And yes, it should be cheaper than a built auto.

No idea on jacking up the 8.3, I know it can be done though.

My advice, start looking at trucks, and trannys and motors, once you have an idea what model 8.3 THEN you can start making phone calls to folks finding out just what you need.
 
600 HP .....1500+ TQ a lite truck and you want a stick? I think an Auto would save you at every corner. $.02
 
Why do you think an auto would be the way to go?
i think they had a 8.3 as an option in the f750's and its in the l8000 and all those mid 90's trucks,
so up to 2002 the 8.3 was a p pumped 12V, and i see that 2004+ rv's with 8.3's have chips for them so you think they were vp44 type engines or common rail type or something all its own?
Im just thinking if i spend the money on the 8.3 im not going to have any money to put into an auto trans...
and i figured an exhaust brake and a manual would help slow the beast in the hills...
 
alright, the 8.3, 98 to 03 was vp44 and 04+ was common rail,
dang the banks website is good for something, lmao!
 
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