Haisley "HI FLOW CONNECTOR TUBES" anyone?

Jetpilot said:
Not biased just honest...... I have done a ton of time dyno testing and the results of going to larger lines and or tubes was no gain and sometimes even a loss of HP on a VP truck. This was with many different injectors not just F1. I have tried F1, Bully Dog, Diesel Dynamics, Buddha Power, DDP, and a few others.

Doug
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I'm biased too, but thanks for testing them, Doug! Also thanks for posting your findings which helps keep money in my pocket.
 
Jetpilot said:
Not biased just honest...... I have done a ton of time dyno testing and the results of going to larger lines and or tubes was no gain and sometimes even a loss of HP on a VP truck. This was with many different injectors not just F1. I have tried F1, Bully Dog, Diesel Dynamics, Buddha Power, DDP, and a few others.

Doug
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Good for you. I don't have the time or dyno to do back to back testing. I go by what my SOP meter tells me, and my truck runs better with bigger tubes.
 
MKoth said:
Good for you. I don't have the time or dyno to do back to back testing. I go by what my SOP meter tells me, and my truck runs better with bigger tubes.
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Time is something we are all short on, but to give info to customers it is a must. SOP meters are terrible at best, dyno testing gives a constant and baseline test products. I have done numerous mods that I would have sworn increased performance only to dyno the truck and learn otherwise.
 
I dont understand...how would going to a flow thru connector tube decrease power? And why would Haisley, a company with a good reputation sell them? Not calling you out just wanting some reasoning and explanation for your claims. I would be able to tell if I gained power if I was going to TI's dyno day again tommorow but I'll be at a pull.
 
SledPuller21 said:
I dont understand...how would going to a flow thru connector tube decrease power? And why would Haisley, a company with a good reputation sell them? Not calling you out just wanting some reasoning and explanation for your claims. I would be able to tell if I gained power if I was going to TI's dyno day again tommorow but I'll be at a pull.
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Prob has to do with the pop off pressures the injectors are set at.
 
SledPuller21 said:
I dont understand...how would going to a flow thru connector tube decrease power? And why would Haisley, a company with a good reputation sell them? Not calling you out just wanting some reasoning and explanation for your claims. I would be able to tell if I gained power if I was going to TI's dyno day again tommorow but I'll be at a pull.
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There are many products that are available that aren't worth a hill of beans. Many products that are out there have never had any form of controlled testing to prove or disprove a gain. Guys need to be careful when purchasing products and ensure what they are buying actually improves performance on the application at hand. Sometimes a mod will work well on one type engine but not on another. This is a good example, modded tubes can help on a CR engine but as stated above the tubes and/or large lines don't on a VP truck.

Be sure and do a baseline dyno with OEM tubes tomorrow when you dyno and then swap them out on the dyno and dyno again. I expect you will see no gain at best. This is not a dig just what our dyno runs have shown. Heck we tried different size holes and injector combos looking for a gain. Once at a certain level you are looking for HP in much smaller increments, sometimes we were very happy with a 2HP increase. If you find 5 different mods that increase HP by 2 you are up 10HP. The higher the HP on the truck the less the gain near the end. The 832HP on our VP truck had about 5 hours of dyno time just 2 days before the event.
 
SledPuller21 said:
I dont understand...how would going to a flow thru connector tube decrease power? And why would Haisley, a company with a good reputation sell them? Not calling you out just wanting some reasoning and explanation for your claims. I would be able to tell if I gained power if I was going to TI's dyno day again tommorow but I'll be at a pull.
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The answer is: The VP44 pumps a small amount fuel per stroke. The maximum total amount of fuel it can pump is fixed per stroke. No matter how efficiently you can fill the 3radial plungers, you are still stuck with 7.5mm diameter plungers and a few mm's of stroke or total plunger travel.

As the pump pressurizes the slug of fuel and begins to deliver it to the rotor head, delivery valves, lines, connector tubes, and finally the injector - the pressure rises. Any change in diameter of the components between the radial plungers and injection nozzle will lower the pressure rise. An ugly analogy would be a section diameter change in a fire hose. You would not start with a 2" hose at the truck and at then at the nozzle have it expand to 3" hose. This will lower the pressure of the liquid and slow velocity. The 4 valve head, the higher injecton pressure and the cross flow design of the 24V VP44 was specifically optimized to use a higher injection pressure. Dropping that pressure begins to work against those parameters for maximum performance.

Remember that emissions and optimized use of fuel goes hand and hand with all out performance as well. Most of all the same things apply to making the most HP as do emissive by-product reductions by the OEM's.

Things like high pressure fuel delivery that injects fuel quickly at high velocity, takes the fuel from a liquid state to a vapor state quickly, and cylinder head airflow to match the injected quantity. These are used by system designers on both sides of fence.

Making a rash section change in a pump, line, nozzle system like the P7100 or the VP44 is a receipe for lower pressure every time. The P7100's can be fitted with larger plungers and differing camshafts to change the volume of that slug of pressurized fuel and can use a larger diameter line in some cases.

We dynoed all kinds/sizes of lines, connector tubes, modified injector bodies, everything between the pump and the nozzle with no good results. Nothing! Some resulted in large power drops. As suspected.

Some companies and even individuals detest dyno work/results. For those people; track results are king. Either way, dyno or drag racing, the stock tube size has resulted in the most power on the dyno and the fastest VP44 trucks in existance using diesel fuel only.

Simply put, there are many untested and unproven parts in the market. Some are marginally tested, some are tested to extremes with everything in between.

None of this applies to the Common Rail systems that are an accumulator style fuel delivery system.
 
How can one in the street class of the DHRA can hold his own with big P pumps and dual CP3s with just a VP with big lines and tubes (93ths) ? I beleive he has the most powerfull VP truck to date #2 only (It must b the dirt )
 
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Rods said:
How can one in the street class of the DHRA can hold his own with big P pumps and dual CP3s with just a VP with big lines and tubes (93ths) ? I beleive he has the most powerfull VP truck to date #2 only (It must b the dirt )
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Truck setup is as important if not more important than HP when it comes to pulling.
 
True , but there are a few trucks that he competes against that have been pulling alot longer than he has even one red bowtie that know one can dispute that his truck is setup top notch
 
I have seen less power VS more end up helping in many cases. Helping traction.
 
That Guy said:
Added fuel flow = less hp, no, wait...Oh I got it now more hype and mystery used to sell parts.
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Not really hype or mystery..... It's not always the amount of fuel but rather but the fuel delivery that is the issue. Hence the reason some name brand HUGE injectors make less HP than one that are smaller. Heck I tried some 12 X .012 injectors that everyone said were bad ass, upon testing these things made 150 LESS than the extrude honed versions I was running and over 230 less than a good set of EDM injectors that I tried later.
 
Ok lets say one makes 10lbs on a set of injectors he tries another set loses 5lbs trys another set makes 15lbs . So is he making more power ? or just throwing heat to make boost ?
 
Rods said:
Ok lets say one makes 10lbs on a set of injectors he tries another set loses 5lbs trys another set makes 15lbs . So is he making more power ? or just throwing heat to make boost ?
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the real question is boost a real measurement of HP

like Doug said we also tried a set of big lines and big injectors when the eng was on a dyno and made 5 hp less

right now we just pulled the lasser cut dv's and put stock 181 in and only went .02 slow than the truck ran with cut dv's and egt went from pegged 1600* to less than 1200*
 
Cummins Express said:
the real question is boost a real measurement of HP
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In basic terms yes thats my ? :hehe:

So what is it , and I dont mean nothing like a big jump I'm talking like 5lbs to 10lbs
 
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Rod I can t truthful answer that I have not done enough dyno testing to know I was sorta asking you the samething.

I do know that I have been realy surprised with pulling exta fuel out will sometimes incress the hp and drops the egt way down
 
Rods,

Might be a gain or might not. Too many variables to just say it makes more/less boost so HP is effected this way. Dyno time will give the answer though...... I know lots of guys hate dynos (not saying you do Rod), and rightfully so because they don't make the HP they think their truck makes, thus the coined name the humbler. But reality is it is a standard measurement we can use to define gain/loss in HP and TQ. A dyno does not lie and guys who try and beat the system by dragging brakes and such usually only are after a piece of paper not a better running truck.
 
I can see rolling black smoke down the trac and EGTS past god knows what yeah probaly not making peak HP but I'm not in that boat 40+lbs down the pull trac and EGTS under 1400 with meth 50+ little more EGTS and barly a haze with Mach 6.5 , I'm just wondering if I will gain from a bigger injector cause either I can upgrade these to a 7 (400+$) or buy some scheid 4s (6x18)


Is one going to sustain the quick burst of fuel you need on the dyno for those big #s down a trac for umm PDR says 8 seconds
 
That Guy said:
Alright, what is the hone size and pop-off pressure of a Mach 6? Answer me that and then you can repeat your previous statement.
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What does the pop-off pressure and hole size of a Mach 6 have to do with my statement? I didn't mention Mach 6's......... But the bottom line is MORE HP has been made using F1 injectors on a VP truck than any other injector on a VP truck. Knowing hole size doesn't do much for guys, as mentioned above bigger isn't always better. The Mach 4, 5, and 6 all have the same number and size of hole yet have a 150-220 HP rating. As I mentioned above the 12X.012 injectors I tried were the biggest I tried on a VP truck and they were a terrible injector, lots of smoke and heat but no HP.

The Hype and BS is what I am trying to point out. The big lines and drilled tubes on the VP trucks just don't work for increased performance. As mentioned bigger isn't always better. Guys need to have good info about what works and what doesn't. Then they can spend their dollars wisely.
 
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