How to word a box charger turbo rule

JWhite said:
Hey its not me!

I wasn't trying to start anything, I just think a rule that only lets you run one size/brand will turn guys away.
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The class is probably being designed around the people that are currently interested, and allowing a cheap upgrade from a stock charger.
 
JWhite said:
And its supposed to be a "cheap" class, but its forcing me to upgrade to a s300 frame. Which of course isn't a huge deal for those 6cyl folks.
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I see it more as a "level playing field class".

For you to read "cheap" into anything pulling is not ever how it goes :D
 
nwpadmax said:
What I don't agree on, is a fixed turbine housing A/R.
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For the turbo listed there are only two options available; 0.88AR undivided volute and 0.91AR divided volute, that is personally why I see it as a good candidate for such a rule. You can also get a 1.00AR and 1.10AR in T4, but they are not a drop-in replacement for the 73mm turbine from BW.

Borg Warner turbo PN#177275 or PN#177284, turbine housing options PN#177211 or PN#177208.
 
zstroken said:
Interesting idea, however someone will just make a key that fits the nut.
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This would be no problem for a precision machinist....such as myself. Many pullers are machinists or know someone that is. I like the $$ claim rule myself.
Just my $.02
 
prostockpuller said:
This would be no problem for a precision machinist....such as myself. Many pullers are machinists or know someone that is. I like the $$ claim rule myself.

Just my $.02
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Very true, so how does the NTPA do this in super farm? A serial numbered tag through a hole in the end of the T-bolt?


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prostockpuller said:
This would be no problem for a precision machinist....such as myself. Many pullers are machinists or know someone that is. I like the $$ claim rule myself.
Just my $.02
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Inbred Inline said:
Very true, so how does the NTPA do this in super farm? A serial numbered tag through a hole in the end of the T-bolt?


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Here is a better question: Why do people have to phucking cheat!

Its what pisses me off most about all of this is people just cant be honest and go by the rules.
 
DISTURBED said:
Here is a better question: Why do people have to phucking cheat!

Its what pisses me off most about all of this is people just cant be honest and go by the rules.
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Because some selfish azzhole said once, "winning is everything" and people continue to believe it.

Some of the most fun I've ever had pulling was (back in the dinosaur era) when me and Calvin Miller were running neck and neck and you never knew which one would win. It was a "any given Saturday night" kind of thing.

However, trying to reproduce that by rule, is pretty difficult.
 
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DISTURBED said:
Here is a better question: Why do people have to phucking cheat!

Its what pisses me off most about all of this is people just cant be honest and go by the rules.
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I agree with you Jeromy. But some pullers are obsessed with winning, and stop at nothing to do so. That's why groups must have "Techs" to try to keep things honest.
 
nwpadmax said:
Some of the most fun I've ever had pulling was (back in the dinosaur era) when me and Calvin Miller were running neck and neck and you never knew which one would win. It was a "any given Saturday night" kind of thing.
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I like to think we made a decent attempt at that in 2.5 this year with Buckeye Truck Pullers, everyone that ran good got their turn at the front several times, made it a lot of fun and super competitive


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I know it would never, ever, ever work, since its been brought up before, but I talked to a guy at PRI that is starting back Big Rig road racing in the US. Of course we asked about power limitations (thinking Pro Stock semi's going in circles,) and his reply was that they had a cover of sorts that fit over the front inlet, limiting all air to a 70mm hole. He said you could do whatever you want turbo wise, but when you get to the track, you receive a serialized cover, and run it for the duration of the race, then return it at the end. No chance to tamper with it, and makes everyone even. Weston suggested such a thing years ago and it got overlooked, but it would be cheap for everyone to pay a machining fee up front to cover your plug, then run whatever you want behind it. I'm sure someone would figure out how to work around it, but you'll always have that
 
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The restrictor plate concept is only being overlooked by the "big" organizations who cater to the big shops and their latest cheating equipment.
 
PACougar said:
I'd say just post part numbers no exceptions and don't do bushings what so ever.
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x2 Make a measuring tool to check the bore of the turbo inlet so you can see if it was altered if you like, but opening up the bore and not changing the wheel will hurt performance, not help it. The idea is to use a turbo exactly the way it comes from the manufacture. Don't mess that all up with bushings. That way you can take a turbo off the shelf at any time and use it on any truck in the class, or swap a turbo from truck to truck.
 
okay so from a box charger rule. explain to me how this is going to be fair for the duramax and ford guys? you say box charger yea that's cheap. but what about those guys they have have to buy t-4 mounts and kits. that gets out of it being a budget class FOR THE duramax and powerstrokes. IMO
 
I have yet to see a t4 turbo bolt directly up to a cummins without changing the manifold or adding a adaptor plate. Cost isnt any different than any other truck. All i hear is me me me and not trying to solve whats best for the class overall.
 
Pudge said:
I know it would never, ever, ever work, since its been brought up before, but I talked to a guy at PRI that is starting back Big Rig road racing in the US. Of course we asked about power limitations (thinking Pro Stock semi's going in circles,) and his reply was that they had a cover of sorts that fit over the front inlet, limiting all air to a 70mm hole. He said you could do whatever you want turbo wise, but when you get to the track, you receive a serialized cover, and run it for the duration of the race, then return it at the end. No chance to tamper with it, and makes everyone even. Weston suggested such a thing years ago and it got overlooked, but it would be cheap for everyone to pay a machining fee up front to cover your plug, then run whatever you want behind it. I'm sure someone would figure out how to work around it, but you'll always have that
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That is way to affective and simplistic to be utilized.
 
ilm99cumminss said:
okay so from a box charger rule. explain to me how this is going to be fair for the duramax and ford guys? you say box charger yea that's cheap. but what about those guys they have have to buy t-4 mounts and kits. that gets out of it being a budget class FOR THE duramax and powerstrokes. IMO
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LOL Did they ever call it a "budget" class? Why do you read that into it? Nothing in pulling is "budget". X10 on what KJP said.

The turbo is inexpensive in and of itself, that's it.

The fact that GM and Ford stuck owners with an oddball manifolding configuration is the owners problem.

If a $299 Dmax pedestal is going to stop you from pulling...well....not sure what to tell you. Buy a used kit for < half price. You shouldn't have more than $1k in kit, period. Hell, you're gonna have about that in tires alone if you want to compete.
 
kjpcummins said:
I have yet to see a t4 turbo bolt directly up to a cummins without changing the manifold or adding a adaptor plate. Cost isnt any different than any other truck. All i hear is me me me and not trying to solve whats best for the class overall.
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This is exactly the source of the problem. Everyone wants to build the rules to their truck, not make the rules and build a truck to the rules. I think if everyone was looking out for the interest of the class you'd have a good set of rules that would work.

I personally feel the part number rule is the best way to go. However, there is one major draw back to that rule. Teching. If you're going to make these rules make sure they are teched consistently. You don't need to tech every truck every week. Just tech the top 3 or the guys that are in the money that night.

The part number idea was tried in our Heavy Pro Farm class. A performance shop came in, with dyno proof, and proved that a box stock GT42 on a 466 would compete with a box stock GT42 on a 640. The problems arose when the class was not teched. Now the class is in shambles because all but a select few are not following the GT42 rule.

In my opinion, make the class an S300 charger class with the BW part numbers you want to use. Have a master tech day before the first pull or at the first pull where your tech officials pull every turbo apart and make sure that it meets the rules. Then seal each charge. If the seal is ever broken throughout the season, the truck is DQed or needs to be teched again. To seal the chargers the puller comes to the pull with a bolt or what ever you choose and run a piece of mechanics wire through the bolt and use a lead crimp to seal the wire. The club will have to purchase a crimping tool to seal the chargers.
 
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When I was racing they did a neat system with tech.

The podium guys (top 3) all got teched before they went to their pits period. Also, there was always a random "drawn from a hat" guy or two that got a quickie tech also. The quickie tech was usually just a run over the scales and some visual stuff, but knowing that you could be picked kept everyone honest. In 7 years of racing I think I saw one guy get DQ and it was one of those grey area rules that was amended in a meeting at the end of the weekend and changed permanently at the end of the year meeting.
 
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