Injector testing Today.....

Congrats Andy, Weston texted me on the results and they are very promising. I run a very similar injector and they are tuff to beat but give them a little time and they will haze on ya. Going to from the old 5x16s vs. my current 5x13s with tons of lift has resulted in a smoother running truck which runs a few more pounds wot boost, a bit darker smoke at wot, and more fun to drive! I'd be really interested to see how these injectors would do with more air via a turbo size increase. Seems like the quick air delivery associated with nitrous really really likes the vco vs the sac design. Perhaps the amout of lift in this injector results in alot more duration of injection which the quick burn associated with nitrous works very well with!

What pump are you running? Judging by the numbers i'm guessing the barrels haven't been turned? I plan to send a 180 pump to Seth for some work on the barrels and see how these monsters do with some serious fuel and maybe some more air above what this 468 by itself can provide.
 
Andy, it does look like there's something weird going on there. What Dv's are you running, is your timing 20* or higher? I wonder if the cam would work better with the injection timing being higher? Whatever that cam is doing makes that power curve look like it has small turbo on the truck.
 
Andy..
i have a feeling it's in your cam as well.. that turbo is spot on, and now so are the injectors.. I think with some fancy AFC tuning, we can still find more, but i'd like to see a different cam in your truck.. I got Nicholas' AFC tuned to the point where the truck never even smoked more than a haze, but he needed more no boost fuel to light his turbo.. We'll talk more at fall brawl about it, of course, but congrats and thank you on the findings..
 
Andy, also have you checked the injection timing with a timing light, I have seen as much as 9* difference between plunger lift timing and with a timing light. After looking back at some of my dyno sheets with a HTT 66/71/14, it could be timing related. Just going from 20* to 22* added about about 30 to40 hp through out the whole curve.
 
Nick...
The pump on my truck is a built 913.The gentleman who built the pump has built many pumps in our area and his tractor stuff really shines.He also has built many of the pumps and turbos which are are the Class 8 truck pullers from our local area.His 5.9 Cummins pumps have resided on many strong running trucks whose owners graced these boards for years,yet he has remained in the darkness just watching and smiling.The pump on my truck has different barrels and plungers,cam ,governor springs and his DV's.It has plenty of fuel and will pull fuel long into the rpm charge.Its actually the small one of the pair I had him build me and the bigger one is here on my shelf as I can not use what I have let alone throw the huge amount of fuel the second one has to it.

As for more air......
I would have to second what Lloyd has said about it.The question he asked was a valid one and yet everyone has dodged it.So I will ask you the same question knowing your running a larger S series charger....WHY?.There are many people who have said and showed how they have laid bigger numbers down with smaller chargers and less fuel.Application can only count for so much of a difference and when the numbers show a significant difference then I missed the boat somewhere,and I do not feel I have yet done that.

Brett...
Timing is set at 20 degrees and it was done by hand with a good timing kit.Timebomb is the one who set it and he has done many over the years for us club guys and none have been off.However,I have never checked timing with a light and want to but do not have the adapter to go that route.I have checked with one of our club members whose father is a tool dealer and once some things get right I will make that addition to my box and check it that way.I also think this would help with ensuring timing is dead on when one goes to the larger sized injection lines as I feel the larger you go the more it retards the timing.I do not know anyone in our area who has the adapter to check with a light but it would certainly be nice.

Ron...
I am convinced that the only thing wrong with the camshaft has to do with how the lifter transitions off the back of the lobe and it creating valve train harmonics or float as many call it.If the lobe allows the lifter to transition to harshly then the harmonics are going to follow throughout the valve train and create a valve float issue which will kill HP instantly,thus the extreme drop like I have.I have seen it happen in my sprint car motors and my BB Mopar drag motors and see no reason it could not happen here.

I know this after driving around late last night and today,they do drive nice.Alot smoother than my other set and more explosive when you swat the loud pedal.I had someone who has never driven my truck drive it today(they have a 24v stick) and they could not believe that it drove so smooth.It will be very interesting on how they fair with a fuel mileage run this week going back and forth to work.........Andy
 
Is the timing set to the 913 pump specs, or is it set to the specs for the plunger & barrell's that are in the pump? I think with the way the pump is setup(p's&b's,dv's, and even pop pressure's)play a big role on injection timing. I know that by timing light my timing dropped 2* going from 181's to 191's, if you have bigger dv's it could create even more of a timing drop. If you get a chance I'd try to add another couple of degrees of timing and see how it responds.
 
As mentioned he has the 66 mm turbo Others are claiming to make more with a lot less turbo. However his truck responded rather well to the additional air was added to the mix with the nitrous. Seems like it is way short on air.

Perhaps my reading comperhension is off but the way this reads to me is that Mr. Mills is suggesting more air would be benefecial to the equation. Further, his statement of ".....are CLAIMING" is suggestive. Last and finally, the truck in the following link would lead me to believe more air is a good thing with it's worked 180 pump and huge primary.

Buck's Comm shakedown runs (videos) - Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together

jmho:Cheer:

In my case my 468 is burning what fuel it has to burn. With a non benched 215 I'm seeing about 580 rwhp according to my et, trap speed, and weight. I don't see this pump, without shop work, making more power.
 
See Nick Twins are where it's at:poke:.

Cant get over how that thing accelerates off the line, dosent seem like he's leaving with crazy boost. It was fun watching him run at Numidia.
 
See Nick Twins are where it's at:poke:.

Cant get over how that thing accelerates off the line, dosent seem like he's leaving with crazy boost. It was fun watching him run at Numidia.

Ha, i never said I ruled the twins out, just may use the 468 as a secondary:evil.

Seriously though that truck is nasty, I watch it over and over!
 
Is the timing set to the 913 pump specs, or is it set to the specs for the plunger & barrell's that are in the pump? I think with the way the pump is setup(p's&b's,dv's, and even pop pressure's)play a big role on injection timing. I know that by timing light my timing dropped 2* going from 181's to 191's, if you have bigger dv's it could create even more of a timing drop. If you get a chance I'd try to add another couple of degrees of timing and see how it responds.


Its set by the plungers that are in the pump and with the head off and a dial indicator on the piston also the geartrain loaded. As far as pops effecting timing maybe a small amount. So its set at 20* and the 5x13s popped at 280 bar Smokems 5x14's pop at 300 so if any its retarted a tad. That stuff is a pinch of chit in a hail storm if the cam isnt right anyway, But there is no problem changing the timing some, Im up for that say 24-26 ??

Im glad to see this thread staying on track very good constructive criticism from everyone.


Also I did run like a little girl, I have no buisness at the helm of a blue bottle.
 
Brett...
Thats a very good question and one thing that I never considered.I will say we have the timing set to 913 specs and maybe thats where we may be missing the boat somewhat.I am going to have to make a call to them and see what we have an go from there.Thats a good reason for the timing light to be used to double check our work.

Nick...
Nope,your wrong,thats not what Lloyd was saying at all.
His comment was made referring to those who have said and posted that they have made alot more power with a smaller single charger.It was said that I was running out of air and we all know that there are some who claim to have made alot more with alot less charger.

580hp????......:what:
 
Brett...
Thats a very good question and one thing that I never considered.I will say we have the timing set to 913 specs and maybe thats where we may be missing the boat somewhat.I am going to have to make a call to them and see what we have an go from there.Thats a good reason for the timing light to be used to double check our work.

Nick...
Nope,your wrong,thats not what Lloyd was saying at all.
His comment was made referring to those who have said and posted that they have made alot more power with a smaller single charger.It was said that I was running out of air and we all know that there are some who claim to have made alot more with alot less charger.

580hp????......:what:

6270lbs + 12.07 ET = 584 rwhp
Horsepower Calculator, calculate hp from et, trap speed, calculate tire diameter, mph and rear end ratio.

Guess I didn't read his statement correctly. Certainly seems to me that when someone says "seems like his setup is short on air" that in fact, they are saying that you need well.............. more air.
 
Nick...
The numbers I see and understand,but,I also know that it is only a guide to go by.If you had a stick in your truck it would no where be close to the same et and thus the HP figure would be a ton lower.What was your trap speed on that pass?.

BTW...More air is always a good thing......
 
Nick...
The numbers I see and understand,but,I also know that it is only a guide to go by.If you had a stick in your truck it would no where be close to the same et and thus the HP figure would be a ton lower.

BTW...More air is always a good thing......

Had it had a stick, I wouldn't even had made the comparison. In my experience with my own numbers and looking at others dyno numbers and associated et's comparing et/mph at a given weight is a good way to determine how much power one is making if equiped with a good working automatic trans.

When I had the t66 from turbonetics the truck made 484 rwhp on bretts dyno and ran 12.9x. With no other change the truck went to 12.07, but I never dynoed it with 468.

I agree, good discussion this thread is (yoda smiley)
 
I agree with that also.....

Nick....What did you trap on that 12.07 pass?...

110.6 ='ing 574 rwhp. This is indicative of my gears being just a bit too much for what i'm doing. This reminds me of another thread discussing just this where a member's trap speed showed about mid 500 rwhp but his et showed mid 700s because he was running out of gear! Let me see if I can find it.
 
110.6 ='ing 574 rwhp. This is indicative of my gears being just a bit too much for what i'm doing. This reminds me of another thread discussing just this where a member's trap speed showed about mid 500 rwhp but his et showed mid 700s because he was running out of gear! Let me see if I can find it.

Here it is. Ofcourse this is a much more extreme example of too much gear than what I have :hehe:

Buck's Comm. Racing goes 10.7@117 - Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together

Weston's post #8. Make's perfect sense.
 
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