Modified CP3's

BBRam said:
An awful lot of Blah Blah Blah from someone that is relying on here say.
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seeing as i havent seen flow charts posted by anyone, thats all this thread has been so far. unless youve got the flow charts, in which case if you get a minute, post them up for us.

Call up Dan Schied and talk him into over-nighting a CP3 test stand to Lafayette, ill be there in the morning, with my pump DDW4, and Shane and John can send their pumps in as well, and it will be settled. Until then, all any of us can do is go off of what we are told by the mfg. of the pump...unless youve got a less blah blah blah suggestion?
 
This thread reminds me of the Monster pump thread over in the 24v forum. All talk and no #'s. I agree, lets get some #'s up on here. I would say that will help alot of people out on trying to get the best setup for thier truck. I started this thread to see what every ones opinions were so I could go by that to see which pump I should get, but now since #'s are being requested and coming into play, I'm going to wait till I seem them so I can decide which is the best for me. Then I will buy a pump. If any of you guys wanna make a quick sale, post up the flow rates and before long, one of you will get an extra order pretty soon.
 
I went with darkside, mainly because when i called bobby the first time it was on a completely unrelated matter, and ended up spending like 2.5 hours on the phone with him just about stuff and testing his knowledge, etc....not ONCE did he try and sell me a pump. time goes on blah blah call him up a few more times just to talk about stuff, have some questions answered. STILL doesnt try to sell me anything. then i call up and he is like "dude, ive got this new beta pump im trying out right now, and its an animal." i go on to say "well i hope it flows more than a stage 3, go big or go home." then we got into the pump conversation, and even though i wanted a stage 4, he kept telling me that on the street i would be happy with a 3. i say, "i dont do anything in moderation, and im not about to start."

This all happened before john's stg 3 came out, but the reason i went with Darkside is for the customer service. he didnt try to sell me anything at first, and after i said im buying he didnt want to sell me more than i "needed". Anymore finding good service is hard to do, and after previously dealing with companies that have little to none that is important to me, and seems to be slipping away faster and faster in this industry.

Don't get me wrong, as I am NOT criticizing John's service, as i have never dealt with him before, but he too seems to be a very stand-up guy.

I know of a floor-it stg 2 here locally that will be turned into a darkside pump soon, and we will see what happens after that.
 
Floor It said:
Robert, track and dyno times have nothing to do with pump flow period! You can have a great pump flow but if you can't tune then the truck will be low on HP and track times. We had a guy on our dyno with twin pumps and the standard boxes and put down 496hp! Bad tuning on his part! This is all about who has the highest flowing pump, from there is where tuning for HP begins.

John
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Really, then tell me why on the test stand two modded pumps will flow perfect but at the track we could drain them? pump flow has everything to do with track times John! Dont throw the imfamous word "tuning" in the mix we know all about that, and get scoulded for using it. You dont think we would have tuned each truck with each pump change! We know where you and everyone else in the modded pump world stand. The test stand like i said is for perfect world comparisons, but the track gives REAL world results.
 
i agree that the test stand is perfect world scenario, which is why i said dyno, track would work too but you would have to have a consistent non biased driver.
 
Anybody want to PM me a website or phone number I can get to get a hold of who ever sells the Darkside pump to get prices and info.?
 
Robertp said:
Really, then tell me why on the test stand two modded pumps will flow perfect but at the track we could drain them?
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Simple. Because you were using II pumps. :hehe:
 
Soooo....Did anyone read the post up top by ''jcummins''?
Perfect world? the test stand only tells what the pump CAN DO, "Flow". Add a pressure box in the mix and now the pump will flow more! Re-read your post Robert, you said pump flow has everything to do with track times John!
If flow wasn't a big deal, there wouldn't be a need for dual pumps.

This is what I am talking about. If one pump flows better, you won't even know it, because you would have to put in bigger injectors to utilize the extra fuel pressure.
Not talk about tuning? Tuning has everything to do with pumps and pressure.
You're draining the rail at the track because of improper tuning. If you put on a higher flowing pump, "Dual pumps" you then have to tune the truck different, because you have more pressure to use.
What I am trying to get across is.....Different pumps take different tuning, and to make this a fair contest, we would have to run the same tuning, and that doesn't show who has the highest flow.
All we are talking about is the pump flow for the standard bosch testing. From there, with that flow, it's up to you to ''tune'' for the most hp and/or fastest track time.

Feelmecummin:
I know what you are talking about, I have had to talk people out of a modded pump, because they didn't need it for their performance combo. Yet.
I have unfortunatly, sent out pumps that I was not happy with. If a person sends me a pump that is already on it's way out, but can't afford a new one right now and just wants the most they can get out of that pump. After discussing it with the customer, we have to send out a ''sub-par'' pump, though it's not what we want to do. I can imagine Bobby has had a few bad pumps sent to him to be modded.
This is the fine line in customer service that we struggle with.

John
 
John, I agree with what youre saying as far as tuning goes, the bosch stand cant simulate the demand huge injectors, a psi box, and super race DL'er command from the pump. It would be hard for me to send out something I'm not happy with. I guess i dont understand why anyone would put money into a modded cp3 that wasnt in good condition to begin with, all to have to re-do it when the pump fails...i just dont get it...
 
and just out of curiosity, what inlet psi and flow do you recommend for your stage 3? PM it if necessary.
 
feelmecummin said:
i agree that the test stand is perfect world scenario, which is why i said dyno, track would work too but you would have to have a consistent non biased driver.
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The problem with a dyno is you can only get 3-4 seconds of data, and 1 gear worth of info. To me this is useless when trying to make a drag truck go as fast as possible in the quarter mile. The track will give you all 4 gears to use and a much longer time frame to data log, and on a CR a million things happen fast, and it's really hard to see them in a 3-4 second span.
 
A Dynocom dyno will log HP/TQ throughout all the gears and can provide a load like a Mustang. That's pretty close to simulating track conditions, without all the variables.
 
JustinR said:
A Dynocom dyno will log HP/TQ throughout all the gears and can provide a load like a Mustang. That's pretty close to simulating track conditions, without all the variables.
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Once again you cannot,duplicate traction issues and wind resistance on a dyno, and the load in each gear is different as it goes down the track, you would be only guessing at best on a dyno. It too has that perfect world effect, while the track is the real world.
 
Yeah but there is no simulation in most cases for real world effect. That why when they crash test cars they always use crash dummy's instead of real people. Nothing in life is ever perfect and track testing them I think would be a completely different. To many variables at the track to try and test one product to another. That's like the smarty fanatics that say "One night at the track I had the bully dog and ran a 13.4 and then 3 nights later I tried the smart and ran a 13.2." Now between them 4 nights alot of things can happen. Track Condition, Humidity, Temperatur, Wind, blah blah blah. I would say on a stand or dyno would be the best way.
 
Robertp said:
Once again you cannot,duplicate traction issues and wind resistance on a dyno, and the load in each gear is different as it goes down the track, you would be only guessing at best on a dyno. It too has that perfect world effect, while the track is the real world.
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Umm...you don't want to duplicate traction issues and wind resistance to test pumps. Those are some of the variables that can/should be eliminated to make the testing more consistent. Traction issues sure won't help tell us which pump works best. :poke:
 
You just can't have a fair test on the track, or even the dyno. There are just to many things that can change. Besides, it will only show small gains or losses, because the truck won't be tuned to the pump.
I think Floor it said it all with ''with the flow, it's up to you to tune for the best hp or track times.''
This makes sense to me. If you have the pump with the highest flow on the stand, you have the most potential for making power. But using the pump to it's full potential is dependant on how you tune the truck. Hence why track and dyno #'s are worthless in this senario, unless you can tune each truck different for each pump, then it becomes a tuning war.
 
Jcummins said:
You just can't have a fair test on the track, or even the dyno. There are just to many things that can change. Besides, it will only show small gains or losses, because the truck won't be tuned to the pump.
I think Floor it said it all with ''with the flow, it's up to you to tune for the best hp or track times.''
This makes sense to me. If you have the pump with the highest flow on the stand, you have the most potential for making power. But using the pump to it's full potential is dependant on how you tune the truck. Hence why track and dyno #'s are worthless in this senario, unless you can tune each truck different for each pump, then it becomes a tuning war.
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Precisely, this is the entire point, very well explained. All the pump does is to provide the POTENTIAL for increased power. Seemingly like a set of cylinder heads that flow alot of air, they only benefit you if you can use them in the rpm range that they flow the best, with all the other necessary components in place. More potential does not benefit you if you don't make the best of that available potential. You simply can't dyno a pump.
A pump is designed to flow fuel, the only way to compare competitiors pumps is in flow, period. If a particular pump is not adequate for your application, then obviously a higher flowing pump is needed. Options are offered, because not everyone needs a max pump. For those who do, it is good to know that some of us are working real hard on a solution to your needs. A single CP3, that can get pretty close to what stock duals can do. That is the goal, and we won't rest until a solution is found.
Unfortunately, all this takes time. It's not like we have 16 hours a day to devote solely to pump evolution, I WISH! Things are falling in place, strides are being made, so please STAY TUNED!
 
Floor It said:
Robert, track and dyno times have nothing to do with pump flow period! You can have a great pump flow but if you can't tune then the truck will be low on HP and track times. We had a guy on our dyno with twin pumps and the standard boxes and put down 496hp! Bad tuning on his part! This is all about who has the highest flowing pump, from there is where tuning for HP begins.

John
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That hurts my feelings, my truck just doesn't like the dyno. It made enough power to twist a billet input shaft! :poke:
 
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