Modified CP3's

WICKEDDIESEL said:
Precisely, this is the entire point, very well explained. All the pump does is to provide the POTENTIAL for increased power. Seemingly like a set of cylinder heads that flow alot of air, they only benefit you if you can use them in the rpm range that they flow the best, with all the other necessary components in place. More potential does not benefit you if you don't make the best of that available potential. You simply can't dyno a pump.
A pump is designed to flow fuel, the only way to compare competitiors pumps is in flow, period. If a particular pump is not adequate for your application, then obviously a higher flowing pump is needed. Options are offered, because not everyone needs a max pump. For those who do, it is good to know that some of us are working real hard on a solution to your needs. A single CP3, that can get pretty close to what stock duals can do. That is the goal, and we won't rest until a solution is found.
Unfortunately, all this takes time. It's not like we have 16 hours a day to devote solely to pump evolution, I WISH! Things are falling in place, strides are being made, so please STAY TUNED!
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Good Post
 
Jcummins said:
You just can't have a fair test on the track, or even the dyno. There are just to many things that can change. Besides, it will only show small gains or losses, because the truck won't be tuned to the pump.
I think Floor it said it all with ''with the flow, it's up to you to tune for the best hp or track times.''
This makes sense to me. If you have the pump with the highest flow on the stand, you have the most potential for making power. But using the pump to it's full potential is dependant on how you tune the truck. Hence why track and dyno #'s are worthless in this senario, unless you can tune each truck different for each pump, then it becomes a tuning war.
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His theory sounds like something banks would say, "we make the most power". "50hp over stock". Too bad the 50hp is at 1900rpm and at peak rpm it made 30hp less. Go figure. Just like a turbo, the biggest and baddest dont make it the best or the fastest.
Like i said before, we have been through all the major pump modders, and have all the results, so we know what each one does or does not do. The difference was a half second at the track, conditions were the same each day within 1% useing a computech weather station. All bases were covered fellas. The truth is out.
 
Well, what is the truth....Actual modifications, all of them and actual timeslips. Really lets hear it. Electronics, pumps, turbo, cam, injectors, spray.
You aren't running that combination now in the NGM truck, so tell us.
 
Robert, you seem to know more than anyone here, so lets have it!
Come on.:pop:

Just seems really reasonable that a higher flowing pump would have more potential power, if you knew how to use it. So flow #'s would basicly tell you what pump you would need for whatever hp number you are chasing.
But obviously you have a different idea. Maybe it takes less fuel to make more power????? Is that what you are saying?
The only reason I have chimed in on this thread is because I wanted to know the flow #'s of all the modded pumps on the market. And I don't want any ''he said it flows'' BS. I want Bosch papers. It should be manditory when trying to sell a pump, that you have proof that it will do more than a stock one.
The reason I back Floor-It is because I have seen his papers.


And please never say I sound like Banks, that's just wrong, man.

J.D.
 
Blah Blah Blah, lets put em on a test stand and see who is who, I know who my money is on. You can listen to to all of the BS from everyone that has no clue., or lets see them head to head and carry on from there. The track or the dyno can not prove flow#'s, so pull your head out and get into reality.
 
BBRam said:
Blah Blah Blah, lets put em on a test stand and see who is who, I know who my money is on. You can listen to to all of the BS from everyone that has no clue., or lets see them head to head and carry on from there. The track or the dyno can not prove flow#'s, so pull your head out and get into reality.
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So BB... Tell me who your cabbage is on?

PM me so I know:thankyou2:
 
Robert P do you have private sessions on how to build the perfect race truck?
For a fellow that has all the facts about how to test pumps and other performance products I would have thought you were an engineer. Your biased posts about testing are annoying as heck.
 
Jcummins said:
Robert, you seem to know more than anyone here, so lets have it!
Come on.:pop:

Just seems really reasonable that a higher flowing pump would have more potential power, if you knew how to use it. So flow #'s would basicly tell you what pump you would need for whatever hp number you are chasing.
But obviously you have a different idea. Maybe it takes less fuel to make more power????? Is that what you are saying?
The only reason I have chimed in on this thread is because I wanted to know the flow #'s of all the modded pumps on the market. And I don't want any ''he said it flows'' BS. I want Bosch papers. It should be manditory when trying to sell a pump, that you have proof that it will do more than a stock one.
The reason I back Floor-It is because I have seen his papers.


And please never say I sound like Banks, that's just wrong, man.

J.D.
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I agree, but the right way to look at this is much like a power band. The most area under the curve will give you the best (useable) power potential and most consistent results. The highest means nothing to me but a spike in flow#'s, kinda like a 900hp(dyno) truck that runs 15's in the 1/4. Sorry the banks comment was geared towards who you quoted. Now i dont think i know it all, nor am "I" an engineer, this is just how i feel this works and responds on the CR. while flow volume is very important, pressure is still the main part that makes power, and it does it through atomization. Apparently the therory's and tests we do here have proven to work. Remember this is nothing more that our opinion,the world still turns reguardless of what we think here.
 
Robertp said:
while flow volume is very important, pressure is still the main part that makes power, and it does it through atomization.
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It takes flow to make pressure.......
 
I do understand what your saying Robert, your talking about the pressure ramp rate of the pump. The faster the ramp rate the more bottom end power
and/or faster track times you are able to do.

John
 
After I saw a few trucks with no gains from mod'd CP3's I threw the concept in the Snake Oil bin.

However. I did some testing with a mod'd CP3 and was impressed.

My truck had dual LBZ CP3's on it. These are the highest flowing OEM CP3's I've seen. We dyno'd it. 2 pulls overlaid each other. Next we pulled off the 2nd CP3 and replaced it with a mod'd CP3. Pulled again, and with no other changes HP climbed over 50rwhp.

Not going to say which brand, cause then everyone will ASSume shiit that ain't true, like that I sell pumps, or am sponsored or helped by a pump shop.

Just an observation. At least on a dyno, modified CP3's can and do show more HP when you have lots of air left over. But be warned, I've also seen trucks that gained nothing with other mod'd CP3's. Let the Buyer Beware.
 
Jcummins said:
Robert, you seem to know more than anyone here, so lets have it!
Come on.:pop:

Just seems really reasonable that a higher flowing pump would have more potential power, if you knew how to use it. So flow #'s would basicly tell you what pump you would need for whatever hp number you are chasing.
But obviously you have a different idea. Maybe it takes less fuel to make more power????? Is that what you are saying?
The only reason I have chimed in on this thread is because I wanted to know the flow #'s of all the modded pumps on the market. And I don't want any ''he said it flows'' BS. I want Bosch papers. It should be manditory when trying to sell a pump, that you have proof that it will do more than a stock one.
The reason I back Floor-It is because I have seen his papers.


And please never say I sound like Banks, that's just wrong, man.

J.D.
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I've searched, called and talked to as many as I can about getting some " paperwork " from Bosch on our fuel systems. Apparently, it's not available. Maybe if you know someone but, from what everyone has said... Bosch won't release information like that. It's proprietary to Bosch period. Otherwise... I'm sure we'd already know what are max pressure and flows are in the rail, pump..etc. without guessing or doing our own testing.

I believe Todd @ T&C did some testing on the rail and found them to be good to 40K. He'd have to explain more though.
 
Simple math, based upon displacement, will net you potential flow numbers. The trick is to make it flow close to its capabilities. The closer you get, the higher the volumetric efficiency. So the better you did your job, so to speak. All this has been discussed, in earlier posts. Bosch's published displacement is 1.087 cc/ per revolution, for the CP3. There is information available, if you know where to look, or dig deep enough.
 
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Triton: I was referring to the papers that you get when you flow test a pump on the stand. Sorry for the confusion.

40k on the rail....good info.,thanks.

Robert: You make a good point. I would still like to see the flow numbers of all stages of modded pumps being offered. But I also understand your ''power band'' idea, and it does play a role in making ''usable power''.
I think we both are wanting to see the same thing-WHAT PUMP MAKES THE MOST POWER!
But it would take a huge effort, and alot of cordination between many competing parties to pull something like this off.


With that said, I believe we both have made good points and am calling this one a draw.

J.D.
 
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Floor It said:
I do understand what your saying Robert, your talking about the pressure ramp rate of the pump. The faster the ramp rate the more bottom end power
and/or faster track times you are able to do.

John
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Exactly John, thank you.
 
Jcummins said:
Triton: I was referring to the papers that you get when you flow test a pump on the stand. Sorry for the confusion.

40k on the rail....good info.,thanks.

Robert: You make a good point. I would still like to see the flow numbers of all stages of modded pumps being offered. But I also understand your ''power band'' idea, and it does play a role in making ''usable power''.
I think we both are wanting to see the same thing-WHAT PUMP MAKES THE MOST POWER!
But it would take a huge effort, and alot of cordination between many competing parties to pull something like this off.


With that said, I believe we both have made good points and am calling this one a draw.

J.D.
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Thats all i was trying to get across, as there is more than one way to look at it.:rockwoot:
 
McRat said:
After I saw a few trucks with no gains from mod'd CP3's I threw the concept in the Snake Oil bin.

However. I did some testing with a mod'd CP3 and was impressed.
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We tested a 02' with injectors and a PPE and made 542hp, we then put a modded pump of ours on and were able to get 604hp so ours are not snake oil!!

John
 
Floor It said:
We tested a 02' with injectors and a PPE and made 542hp, we then put a modded pump of ours on and were able to get 604hp so ours are not snake oil!!

John
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the year model 02 is a typo i guess?
 
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