New CRT 48RE Competition Only Trans Brake

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I am going to run a stock shift kit valve body to get a bace line reading and get back to you soon.
 
As per the video John, how come you didn't use a Firepunk Competition valve body? You have them pictured on the cover of your own catalog?

I am still confused as to the pressures recorded on the video for converter loc up application.

Perhaps Will or even Lavon will chime in on this.....
 
RacinDuallie said:
As per the video John, how come you didn't use a Firepunk Competition valve body? You have them pictured on the cover of your own catalog?

I am still confused as to the pressures recorded on the video for converter loc up application.

Perhaps Will or even Lavon will chime in on this.....
Click to expand...



John builds and runs his own valvebodies, the reason firepunk is on his catalog is because they ran his valvebody


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I see why this guy is so confused. :bang change your bong water.
 
HMMMM only Jeff lol...Ill jump in because I haven fallen victim to more then 1 converter being burned up and ruining my day.. I would also like to thank John for putting the effort into the diesel crowd, it is appreciated.

This is known to most of the diesel crowd but I need to throw it out there so John knows where im coming from.

In 98-99 when we started making minimal power (350hp) from a cummins we were faced with immediate transmission problems, First was our single disk lockup converter and our direct clutch slipping in overdrive (ill focus on the converter). These problems have long since been addressed. The first and only solution back then was a valvebody with increased line pressure, then a triple disk converter. A hot rod valvebody from DTT had about 95 psi base and around 130 psi locked up, this seemed to do the trick at the time. OK so whats that have to do with my valvebody and tests? I had to watch the videos a few times to get all the psi's to compare. Heres what I found.

Cope comp trans brake
Base pressure 175 psi , The first pull you did little rpm.

converter unlocked; converter release 110 psi apply 125 psi 15 psi delta P
converter locked; converter release 0 psi apply 50 psi (50psi lockup)

second pull with some rpm

converter unlocked; converter release 160psi apply 130 psi 30psi delta P
converter locked; converter release 0psi converter apply 50 psi (50psi lockup)


cope street strip valvebody

Base pressure of 200psi to 250psi with some rpm

converter unlocked; converter release 175psi converter apply 140 35psi delta P
converter locked; converter release 25psi converter apply 55psi (30psi lockup)

Muldoons valvebody

Base pressure 110psi

converter unlocked; converter release 100psi converter apply 75psi 25psi delta P
converter locked; converter release 20psi converter apply 50psi (30psi lockup)

I guess my first question would be, if we have a pressure range of 110psi all the way to 250psi why isn't any of that added pressure finding its way to the apply side of the converter? Also if it isn't why when we increase line pressure on any valvebody it stops our lockup clutch from slipping (within its mechanical limits)?

Ok now back to the present, how do we make a trans hold 2000+hp ? With all the billet hard parts and added clutches , PRESSURE, PRESSURE, PRESSURE...it has always worked but has presented a few new problems, in race applications.

First problem I had was several burned up converters, not from locking up but from staging at the strip, when I brake stalled to 2500rpm with line pressure of 150psi I would drag my converter clutches and burn them. I had 2 professionally built valvebodys that caused converter failure, both builders blamed the converter builder, were all human so I can see one failure...But after 5 I woke up lol. Will (big blue) straightned me out with his valvebody and haven't had an issue since , with the trans anyway. THANKS WILL.

Second question / Test for you John, would you be able to build a 2500-2700 stall triple or quad disk lockup convert and put it on the machine and brake stall it and record the release and apply pressure? Cope street/strip valvebody should work, Base pressure should be atleast 175 or more...This would answer a few questions...



Third and last question,


If in your testing the converter apply pressure never seems to go north of 50psi then why do we have converter ballooning when we raise our line pressures to 220psi + (recorded the way we do it)?


Look forward to the answers / results... Thanks T-MAN..
 
at the competition only level with a 48re is lockup really necessary, especially in 1/8 mile limited races?

i would love to see non lockup converter tech to grow and a transbrake vb built to make a tight converter act loose staging on the line like the th400 crowd
 
1. my comp brake after the first test was re set to 200 psi so it is the same as my 1st street-strip brake.

OK I am going to take this on question at a time, I hope this helps and I hope I am right LOL. but first the radius of the 12" inch circle (lock up piston) = 113 square inches x 50 pounds per square inch (PSI) = 5650 pounds of force

If in your testing the converter apply pressure never seems to go north of 50psi then why do we have converter ballooning when we raise our line pressures to 220psi + (recorded the way we do it)?

Are your converters ballooning under spool up on the starting line ? Billet converters doing this? or when going down track in lock up?

5650 pounds of force is a **** load, I am not saying I cant get more, but so far, 3 VBs all about the same in lock up. You have a VB you want me to check, I can do that.
 
T-MAN said:
HMMMM only Jeff lol...Ill jump in because I haven fallen victim to more then 1 converter being burned up and ruining my day.. I would also like to thank John for putting the effort into the diesel crowd, it is appreciated.

This is known to most of the diesel crowd but I need to throw it out there so John knows where im coming from.

In 98-99 when we started making minimal power (350hp) from a cummins we were faced with immediate transmission problems, First was our single disk lockup converter and our direct clutch slipping in overdrive (ill focus on the converter). These problems have long since been addressed. The first and only solution back then was a valvebody with increased line pressure, then a triple disk converter. A hot rod valvebody from DTT had about 95 psi base and around 130 psi locked up, this seemed to do the trick at the time. OK so whats that have to do with my valvebody and tests? I had to watch the videos a few times to get all the psi's to compare. Heres what I found.

Cope comp trans brake
Base pressure 175 psi , The first pull you did little rpm.

converter unlocked; converter release 110 psi apply 125 psi 15 psi delta P
converter locked; converter release 0 psi apply 50 psi (50psi lockup)

second pull with some rpm

converter unlocked; converter release 160psi apply 130 psi 30psi delta P
converter locked; converter release 0psi converter apply 50 psi (50psi lockup)


cope street strip valvebody

Base pressure of 200psi to 250psi with some rpm

converter unlocked; converter release 175psi converter apply 140 35psi delta P
converter locked; converter release 25psi converter apply 55psi (30psi lockup)

Muldoons valvebody

Base pressure 110psi

converter unlocked; converter release 100psi converter apply 75psi 25psi delta P
converter locked; converter release 20psi converter apply 50psi (30psi lockup)

I guess my first question would be, if we have a pressure range of 110psi all the way to 250psi why isn't any of that added pressure finding its way to the apply side of the converter? Also if it isn't why when we increase line pressure on any valvebody it stops our lockup clutch from slipping (within its mechanical limits)?

Ok now back to the present, how do we make a trans hold 2000+hp ? With all the billet hard parts and added clutches , PRESSURE, PRESSURE, PRESSURE...it has always worked but has presented a few new problems, in race applications.

First problem I had was several burned up converters, not from locking up but from staging at the strip, when I brake stalled to 2500rpm with line pressure of 150psi I would drag my converter clutches and burn them. I had 2 professionally built valvebodys that caused converter failure, both builders blamed the converter builder, were all human so I can see one failure...But after 5 I woke up lol. Will (big blue) straightned me out with his valvebody and haven't had an issue since , with the trans anyway. THANKS WILL.

Second question / Test for you John, would you be able to build a 2500-2700 stall triple or quad disk lockup convert and put it on the machine and brake stall it and record the release and apply pressure? Cope street/strip valvebody should work, Base pressure should be atleast 175 or more...This would answer a few questions...



Third and last question,


If in your testing the converter apply pressure never seems to go north of 50psi then why do we have converter ballooning when we raise our line pressures to 220psi + (recorded the way we do it)?


Look forward to the answers / results... Thanks T-MAN..
Click to expand...

:Cheer: at least you see where I'm coming from. We are old timers in the diesel game......
 
John thank you for your reply, and please don't take anything I say as an insult or me questioning you ability to build a trans.....


line pressure to lockup pressure. 110psi to 250psi line pressure differential there was no change to the applied lockup pressure on the converter clutch of 50psi. If I ran 110psi of line pressure on my race truck I would make half a pass my forward clutches would be welded and my converter would be fried. If I run 180psi line my converter will hold and my forward clutches will still be alive.
I know this to be fact. so if no more pressure hits my converter what has changed?

Second, my converter clutches were dragging and burning at the line, this was from a high stall 2500rpm + and staging line pressure set above 150 and around 200 locked up.

Third, the ballooning, this is a whole different problem, when we cant get a grip so to speak on everything just raise line pressure... nope get above 220psi and lock it up even a billet mack daddy converter will balloon if the proper mods aren't made to the valvebody to control lockup pressure.. above 250psi im told it will balloon and not come back.

I guess my point is somehow the lockup pressure has to be changing or main line wouldn't have an effect on it. maybe im missing something, look forward to you reply. T-MAN
 
John, I also want to know I appreciate your knowledge, I come from racing Mopar's with pushbutton 727's. These diesels are a whole nother ballgame. Now my 64 Plymouth and 65 dodge are collecting dust.
 
line pressure to lockup pressure. 110psi to 250psi line pressure differential there was no change to the applied lockup pressure on the converter clutch of 50psi. If I ran 110psi of line pressure on my race truck I would make half a pass my forward clutches would be welded and my converter would be fried. If I run 180psi line my converter will hold and my forward clutches will still be alive.
I know this to be fact. so if no more pressure hits my converter what has change

what is happening with the lock up clutch off. the converter he being charged and its exhausting fluid to the front cooler line. this keeps the converter full under torque multiplication, keeps the converter cool cause it is making heat, then exhaust to the front cooler line to cool the fluid then lube the trans.

whats is happening in lock up, no longer is the converter multiplying torque, it is no longer making heat, it is not being charged with fluid cause its locked up, thus it is no longer feeding the cooler , that oil now comes from main line pressure from the switch valve. It no longer needs high pressure cause in lock up, the converter is not doing anything. make any sense ?
 
Last edited:
CRT said:
line pressure to lockup pressure. 110psi to 250psi line pressure differential there was no change to the applied lockup pressure on the converter clutch of 50psi. If I ran 110psi of line pressure on my race truck I would make half a pass my forward clutches would be welded and my converter would be fried. If I run 180psi line my converter will hold and my forward clutches will still be alive.
I know this to be fact. so if no more pressure hits my converter what has change

what is happening with the lock up clutch off. the converter he being charged and its exhausting fluid to the front cooler line. this keeps the converter full under torque multiplication, keeps the converter cool cause it is making heat, then exhaust to the front cooler line to cool the fluid then lube the trans.

whats is happening in lock up, no longer is the converter multiplying torque, it is no longer making heat, it is not being charged with fluid cause its locked up, thus it is no longer feeding the cooler , that oil now comes from main line pressure from the switch valve. It no longer needs high pressure cause in lock up, the converter is not doing anything. make any sense ?
Click to expand...
No this does not make sense. Cause with the lower psi, all that is happening is the fluid filter is clogging up with converter clutch material.....
 
I see your on the way down jeff.. Pipe up bro. Straighten me out here john

Stall ratio, torque multiplication all build heat when were not locked up. This I understand

Line before lube , Fluids priority is pressure before it heads to the lube circuit. This I understand

Venting or dumping the converter release circuit to apply lockup. understand this also

Im lost here though. Are you saying that while in lockup I don't need any apply pressure to the lockup clutch because its not doing any work (torque multiplication) and its only job is to couple a 2000 ft lb diesel at a 1-1 ratio (less overdrive) through the transmission?

Or are you saying after the tcc control valve strokes we see full line to the converter clutch apply circuit?

Tighten me up, look forward to your reply T-MAN
 
T-MAN said:
I see your on the way down jeff.. Pipe up bro. Straighten me out here john

Stall ratio, torque multiplication all build heat when were not locked up. This I understand

Line before lube , Fluids priority is pressure before it heads to the lube circuit. This I understand

Venting or dumping the converter release circuit to apply lockup. understand this also

Im lost here though. Are you saying that while in lockup I don't need any apply pressure to the lockup clutch because its not doing any work (torque multiplication) and its only job is to couple a 2000 ft lb diesel at a 1-1 ratio (less overdrive) through the transmission?

Or are you saying after the tcc control valve strokes we see full line to the converter clutch apply circuit?

Tighten me up, look forward to your reply T-MAN
Click to expand...

I understand exactly what you are saying. Seen your issues and seen probably all 5 of your converters get toasted.

Been through my own transmission/converter battles back in the day with Mr.Joe Webb :bow: (r.i.p. brother)

I'm admittedly transmission dumb compared to John and you T..... :stab:


Eagerly awaiting some fresh insight to this setup. Been waiting for a reliable transbrake 2000+ ft tq capable street strip pounder transmission......

:rockwoot:
 
e132184029b7701b6222e38ebb2317dc.jpg



This might possibly help eliminate some confusion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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