This I don’t know for racing. For pulling they took the biggest European engine V10 MAN & Mercedes used in a road truck with a displacement of 18.27L and set the limit to 18,5L.
New engine build Scania DC1601 for our semi truckpuller.
- Thread starter tall boy
- Start date
This I don’t know for racing. For pulling they took the biggest European engine V10 MAN & Mercedes used in a road truck with a displacement of 18.27L and set the limit to 18,5L.
Semi truck pulling team Ny Titan already champion. Congratulations.
Begin 2015 we had a meeting on how to build the engine and motor management system.
Some days after the first meeting we where taking the valve cover off a brand new D16G 750Hp Volvo engine to get data on injectors and camshaft. We have done some calculation bases on a D13 Volvo race engine to get the set-up for this 16L engine and on the first pulling event they went home with first place win.
The only bad luck this year was that the engine did not want to start for the pull off ending up in 3 place due to a camshaft sensor. On all other pulling events they when home with a first place win resulting in a championship win with still one big pulling event to go.
Begin 2015 we had a meeting on how to build the engine and motor management system.
Some days after the first meeting we where taking the valve cover off a brand new D16G 750Hp Volvo engine to get data on injectors and camshaft. We have done some calculation bases on a D13 Volvo race engine to get the set-up for this 16L engine and on the first pulling event they went home with first place win.
The only bad luck this year was that the engine did not want to start for the pull off ending up in 3 place due to a camshaft sensor. On all other pulling events they when home with a first place win resulting in a championship win with still one big pulling event to go.
I have no idea about that, but can you say something positive sometimes MR Leiffi to start with???
Mantorp Park.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTftjBU5Uyc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTftjBU5Uyc[/ame]
@ SmokinCAT are you talking about truck racing or pulling sport? Team will come and go and most team I know it’s hobby and a great way to spend your time and some are more competitive than others performing on different levels. Also around the track there are loads of opportunities to get to know new people and companies and invite your guest for a good time.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTftjBU5Uyc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTftjBU5Uyc[/ame]
@ SmokinCAT are you talking about truck racing or pulling sport? Team will come and go and most team I know it’s hobby and a great way to spend your time and some are more competitive than others performing on different levels. Also around the track there are loads of opportunities to get to know new people and companies and invite your guest for a good time.
Well in the years before there was a Renault Truck with a Mack V8 dominating this competition thinking it was impossible to beat.
With the new build Volvo we set a new standard on performance but still all of it has to work together and this is not about an unlimited budged. Know how a bit of luck and in fact more than 2 years of planning and getting all the used parts together. The only thing that was brand new was the engine and they got lucky that they could get it but still you can get these engines as they are on the road for some time and as most teams run a truck workshop so you can bay these semi trucks from insurance companies after they where in a accident and take the semi apart for parts and sell them off to reduce cost and in the process keep the engine. All you need is time and a bit of luck to get the parts you need and that is how most teams build the semi trucks.
What also helps is the infrastructure is there for used parts so between teams there is also lot of trading parts that keep the cost down.
On the Volvo engine all I have done is change the camshaft installed my ECU system and a BW S500SX turbo. Took the mapping from a smaller 13L race engine gave it some more fuel and free up some more boost and set the RPM to 2500. In all less than one hour of making modifications to the ECU maybe being very lucky first time telling the team after there first win looks like this is It hoping the turbo with 70mm intake restrictor keep doing it’s job well as I’m waiting for boost to build up in lower RPM to free up more fuel in a attempt not to damage the turbocharger as they run with a fairly small turbine housing to get that massive low end performance that makes it possible to select a hi gear and get some more speed into the pulling combination using the weight of the sled on the end of the pull but you must be able to produce low end torque to do this as the RPM will drop.
In general the amount of damage on conventional fuel system and turbochargers is a big part of the money while teams are looking for better performance. Going full electronic can reduce cost as engines are randomly available and reliable and the older generation engines with mechanical fuel system are harder to find these days so part are getting more expensive as well.
Looks like for most teams it’s a professional hobby that involves great passion and fun and every team performs on there own level. The teams that had to stop in the past had to do so as there where financial problems with the company for example. I never seen a team stop in the truck pulling sport as they could not keep up with the competition. Other way around is that tractor pulling teams start building a Semi Truck to reduce cost and time as some of these classes like the 4,5Ton Super Sport and Pro Stock go bizarre in things and cost.
Runs of last Saturday. Blow one turbo on the new truck as it turned out one air shutoff valve closed halve way during the run over speeding the turbo.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSqd6-NtkGY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSqd6-NtkGY[/ame]
Scooter's Roofing
New member
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2006
- Messages
- 17,007
great post all around!
Leiffi
New member
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2013
- Messages
- 1,381
We were just expecting it to be much faster.
That british "Scania" was a MAN racetruck with Bosch EDC P-pump ?
We were just expecting it to be much faster. Well what about FIA for the local trucks. Can we take these truck to any other race track in Europe under FIA regulations? Do they run a 65mm inlet restrictor for example and what about minimum weight? What about smoke? Can we get things in perspective on this?
That british "Scania" was a MAN racetruck with Bosch EDC P-pump ? Yes that’s a MAN racetruck and it’s not only the engine that makes it go fast.
I do not want to comment on some things but getting more traction and easier handling on things is more needed than more power for some teams. Up till 2002 I was a race and rally driver winning loads of races but most know me as a engineer building engine parts and so on and maybe it is hard to explain that things are different to get more corner speed and faster shifting changing the game in going faster a lot more than finding this last bit of power that can take a lot more effort. So with limited time on most teams to build things I like them to focus on improving road handling as the engine performance is there and some teams have the parts in house to build that engine with a bit more…….. but it dos not improve tings if this …. is going to waste on bad handling of the truck.
Leiffi
New member
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2013
- Messages
- 1,381
That was just the reason we thought they are fast, wide torque curve, good handling. We have lots of power, no problem with grip.
No restrictors because we want to keep them cheap and reliable. There' s no smoke under boost. We dont even want to drive under FIA, they have messed up the whole sport.
Well I disagree. Well Mantorp Park look more like a rally cross circuit. Low avarice speed loads of gear changes bad traction means not a lot of G force and therefore not a lot of stress so no real need for a sub frame meaning you can save weight even more not running under 5,5Ton min FIA weight. So having a weight advantage of 1500Kg and good traction tells me that there is not a lot more power but a lot more smoke again not allowed on most tracks.
Reliable? Not really as they discover these local trucks wear down after about 9 minutes so some where smart asking for a longer race and so the next race was a 15Min race + one round and this changing the ranking in favour of the FIA trucks I was told.
Again you have to get thing in perspective and yes these local truck do very well in there own habitat.
Well all my live I run under FIA and so on not complaining. The ones that do complain can not keep up and clearly do not understand things from all running under the same condition way up to safety on things. Two words challenge and commitment and a load of smart thinking to keep the budged down and the ones that want to follow unable to produce and improve are willing to bay things most of the time and yes some will complain about this.:rules: LOL
Leiffi
New member
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2013
- Messages
- 1,381
Our 12 liter trucks with front disc brakes must weight 5800 kg, 10 liters with drums all around is 5200 if I remember right.
I meant restrictors needs special turbochargers and they wear out faster because of unnatural pressure balance.
Before FIA there was 3 different classes full of trucks in every race around Europe, now it's too expensive for most interested, especially if they want to win. Of course they can just drive around like Rainbow team does and let factory teams take the wins.
You’re just a perfect example on how well you are aware of things. In the old days fomula1 was like this as well but time moves on and how many circuits can handle truck in a save way in Europe or how many circuits want race trucks on there tarmac? Knowing this scales things down and truck racing is not that popular among things locally with no chance to test things other than on the circuit so thing will progress slow and we have to get the know how from rally raid trucks and truck pulling and last there is the limit on what teams can do as it called hobby and no one even thinks about getting to win a race in FIA class as this is not even close to the next level of things needed to get there. Easy way is to bay an ex works race truck and compete and yes this is a load of money so yes I agree on that part. And what is you want to run a Scania? You bay a MAN and replace the looks! LOL.
If you want to go truck racing I would go for BTRA or France championship.
Far more professional are the local rally raid teams and the level of performance between the new build trucks are getting closer every year as working together with a load of other teams will make progress possible and with the Euro6 Daf rally truck we did get things to the next level and others will try follow making a rally truck that drives like a rally car and Tuesday I will know if one of the new build rally trucks will drive on a OE ECU in the way we done things sharing information and selling parts.
As for turbochargers. Special, not, but a crappie old Holset from a V8 Scania will not last long even without any restriction on the inlet side. The BorgWarner SX family and other motor sport turbo we get from MAN will last unless you start messing about with the smoke trap fuel metering and wastegate control blowing the turbine side or overheating things. In the last years we did not see any structural damage on the motor sport turbo as for compressor wheels and bearing structure on race trucks I’m involved on. There is a fine line and the engineer that made the changes will know short after if he done the correct thing as within 2 race laps you will know as after EGT and sometimes drive pressure will come down as the engine will get to operating temperature running more efficient and if not GAME OVER.
Leiffi
New member
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2013
- Messages
- 1,381
I'm more aware of things than you, been following the sport from the beginning, not much lately because it's become so boring.
No turbo will last if it's not matched to the application. If driver is surging turbos to death, change driver or turbo to match driver. Or change engineer choosing turbos. For some reason most of the top level pulling turbos are based on Holset. BW turbos have great compressor for high PR, it would be nice to match it to better flowing exhaust wheels from Garret and Holset when higher than PR 4 is needed.
Well we are testing a BorgWarner turbo with a bigger turbine wheel on a puller and the data from it looks very promising dropping the drive pressure and the spool-up is identical to the 88/82 wheel and it will be a new series coming into production soon I hope, but you never know with BW.
Same thing testing (bigger turbine) is done on a almost similar puller and so far within 10 meter they blow the turbine wheel clean of the shaft on a Holset for the third time. The S&W is not really up to handle things and a big part of our turbo sales is due to this.
We had a meeting about this on making gain on things and on the Holset there a consequences on what can be improved due to failure of parts and they already look into fitting a S&W from a other turbo manufactures. Just wait and find out what will be the winner.