rebuilding injector bodies for 04.5

So, how do you define a "shot glass". I don't have anything that can measure fluid oz that small.

If you define it as "the very top of the glass" Then my motor, at stock rail pressure idle releases exactly one shot glass in 60 seconds. If not, a touch more if you define a single 1.5 fl oz shot as a little less then the top.

I've re-routed the cp3 return to a tube and to my oil pan. pulled hte quick disconnect and plugged in a little hose to a catch can. So it's only the fuel from the head that's captured.

I'm going to ensure all cross over tubes are torqued correctly and test again. but I feel I'm right on limit here as far as fuel return.

You should see this thing piss fuel with the RP on 4 at idle. like twice as much.

I have my rail capped, and ya know what, it drips a little at idle too, so I'm going to inspect that bolt. :)
 
I forget spec, but that don`t sound that bad, remember its not all leakage, there is a set amount that is supposed to flow from normal operation of the injector.

When the injector fires, there is a small amount goes out the top past the ball seat.

Normal operation with higher pressure will result in a normal higher flow out the top. For the same unit of time, the higher pressure will let more through the control orfice.

I`ll going by the shop today, I`ll grab a book and get a number if no one has posted it by then.
 
cylinder #1's. cross over tube need a 1/4 turn to get to 45ft#. was at 35-ish. these have to had losened or settled.
 
Wow, spec in the book says not more than 180ml or 6 fl-oz per min with injectors at operating temp.

Ooops, thats using insite`s elevated rail test.

Not seeing a spec at normal idle rail pressures.

Could always pull the wire to the fca and see what your leakage is then. If its less than that spec at 20K or so must be good.
 
I'm close to operating temp.. not at 190 degrees tho. I do not think I wanna run the truck at max rail the pump can handle for a min at idle.... sounds like a bad idea. rail at 9 is dueable with the smarty.

So 1-4 are lose. I'm going to have to guess at 5 nd 6. Just going to do the 1/4 turn and button things back up and re-check.
 
well, the motor is now stone cold cuz it's been a few hours while I was tightening things.

Just ran the test again and nothing changed. If things tighen up while warm, then i may have some improvement. however, it's flowed exactly one full to the top shot glass full worth in exactly 60 seconds.

So, according to you guys with the 180ml/6oz/min.. I'm well in the clear here with my injector bodies...

I wonder if that rail gauge was mucking with things so much, it was preventing me from getting to rail pressure.... I have yet to hear from diprocol yet on that.
 
JasonCzerak said:
well, the motor is now stone cold cuz it's been a few hours while I was tightening things.

Just ran the test again and nothing changed. If things tighen up while warm, then i may have some improvement. however, it's flowed exactly one full to the top shot glass full worth in exactly 60 seconds.

So, according to you guys with the 180ml/6oz/min.. I'm well in the clear here with my injector bodies...

I wonder if that rail gauge was mucking with things so much, it was preventing me from getting to rail pressure.... I have yet to hear from diprocol yet on that.
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That spec of 180 ml OR 6oz per min is during a elevated rail pressure test that is done with cummins insite or chrysler diagnostic software. My specs don`t show what pressure they bring them up to, I`d guess its up there.

If I was checking my truck I`d pull the fca wire (one pump only if duals) and get it up to the 20k or so. (Just don`t drive it that way) Its not going to hurt anything.

If it passes that (less than 180ml per min at that pressure) your good for sure.

I`ve heard that kicked around 1 shot glass at idle, BUT a elevated rail test would be better.
 
I suppose I could give it a try again with the fca un plugged. Just sounds "wrong". I'll give it a shot in a few days.

Would be sweet if Don M or someone that builds injectors could chime in here as far as numbers for the idle test.

I may give Todd at TC diesel a call. he has a scan tool. It would be nice to have it at 20K and not 30K. :)
 
I`m pretty sure it was Don that said the shot glass or about......at idle rail pressure.

My rail with the flux 5`s with a fca unplugged will only go to about 20k, but a hot pump with some smallish injectors could get right up there.

I think with what you ended up with your fine, but if its really naggin you a scan tool that can do the injector leakage test might put it to rest.

I`d be interested in just what pressure they bring them up to.
 
I've watched the test done with a Starscan. It brings rail pressure to about 20k, but this truck also had 6 bad injectors, so maybe it was trying to make max pressure??? I do know that the max ml of passed fuel for each stix was 28. Any more than that Dodge concidered bad and replaced.

I'm gonna say if your that worried about it, just send them off so you don't loose any sleep over it. There is no way of getting a real accurate measurment without the proper tools.
 
at $750 min, and don m is rather good price even if it take 2 weeks is somthing I'd rather be sure about before I send them in. that's all.
 
JasonCzerak said:
at $750 min, and don m is rather good price even if it take 2 weeks is somthing I'd rather be sure about before I send them in. that's all.
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I agree, for kicks I`ll check out my truck tomorow, its simple with my fuel system, the injector return has its own line to the tank, about 2 min`s to test.

I`ll see what kind of number I get at idle and at 20k.

Always seems no matter how good of a set of injectors you send in to some of these shops they are always "Trashed" :kick:
 
I have Don's injectors and have sent them back to test when i was chasing a fueling problem and he had them back in less than a week!
 
Well, damn it, I checked my truck, at idle I got 4oz (114 ml) over 1 min and at 18k (one fca unpluged) 780ml or 27.5 oz over 1 min :bang

Funny thing is truck acts normal, and have no trouble keeping rail pressure up there.
I guess I haven't put the screws to this new build yet either.

Running II's 85% over along with a stage 2 pump would hide excessive leakage somewhat.
 
I dont know the optimal factory numbers using the Dodge testing methods.

When we run them we look for excessive back-leakage past about 13-14ml using a 1 minute test. Per injector. A great injector will have about 10 ml. A good injector is 12-13ml. Anything over that and we begin to look further as to why it is that high. Extending those tests further of course gives us a much better way to average all 6 injectors. Any reamns we do here are under 10ml or it does not leave. We get 6's and mostly 7's daily. Bosch cant even get that tight of a tolerance in their mass production facilities. 10ml is a about average for them.

Some injectors will already have damage that will not show up on a bench test because the wear has just begun and not reached the actual sealing area of the seat and ball. These are the sleepers. Luckily they are not very common.
 
Soup Nazi said:
I dont know the optimal factory numbers using the Dodge testing methods.

When we run them we look for excessive back-leakage past about 13-14ml using a 1 minute test. Per injector. A great injector will have about 10 ml. A good injector is 12-13ml. Anything over that and we begin to look further as to why it is that high. Extending those tests further of course gives us a much better way to average all 6 injectors. Any reamns we do here are under 10ml or it does not leave. We get 6's and mostly 7's daily. Bosch cant even get that tight of a tolerance in their mass production facilities. 10ml is a about average for them.

Some injectors will already have damage that will not show up on a bench test because the wear has just begun and not reached the actual sealing area of the seat and ball. These are the sleepers. Luckily they are not very common.
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Don, What pressure do you test at? OEM idle pressure? so around 5.5K?

Would it be safe to assume on that 13ml per injector * 6 is still accurate? that would put that at 2.6floz/min combined with all injectors. So my 1.5floz/min (7.3ml per) is rather excellent, pending what you test your remans at pressure wise.

From what I understand, my bodies where redone a few years ago, not sure who tho. Maybe you have your hands in my truck and i don't know it ;-)

If this is all true, I can safely look elsewhere.


Thank you Don! Your info is very much appreciated!
 
No, we use a higher pressure of 15225 psi ( 1050 bar ) up to 30450 psi ( 2100 bar ) for testing.

In December we received a bursting module that will go to 4000 bar or about 58000 psi for R & D work. We dont run injectors that high. Things can pop and bang or explode.. Pretty cool though and we are learning a bunch. Im glad they invented thick safety/plexiglass laminates.
 
So, for us with no ability to run high pressures (and not really willing to unplug the fca for a full minute), Is the "shot glass a minute" acceptable?

Is flow by linear as pressure increases? If that's the case, I'm at 22.16ml/injectors, or crappy broken injectors.
 
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