side by side twin turbos?
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XLR8R
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Storm in a tea cup! :bang
Big hullabaloo over the old gauge & absolute pressure differences...
Sometimes people get butt-hurt over the most amazing things.
Disseminating information with patience is teaching; distributing knowledge with disdain is mere arrogance.
Big hullabaloo over the old gauge & absolute pressure differences...
Sometimes people get butt-hurt over the most amazing things.
Disseminating information with patience is teaching; distributing knowledge with disdain is mere arrogance.
coon smile
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after talking with a few ppl, it seems as if that is the norm for Charles
Well, when someone can't get their head around a simple ratio it makes it hard. At that point you would be asking me to teach discrete math..... not turbocharging.
I doubt you'll catch me doing that any time soon. Maybe when I have a small child I will step up to that plate. Until then, I just assume adults can do basic mathematic operations. Division is about as basic as it gets. Right after addition and subtraction.
So if we're defining "norms" here. Shall I assume substandard reasoning skills to be the "norm" for you? After all, you were no less puzzled and lost after a thorough explanation was clearly given rather early on. What am I supposed to do for you exactly? The burden of understanding is on YOU! A pre-requisite to even reading this entails that you have a fully functional internet connection that could be used to source nearly any information you desire. But alas, that might require effort.
:smirk:
And as to the comment about psig vs psia...
Having read the discussion to present and citing that as the basis for argument clearly shows a lack of reading comprehension. If you think not, answer me this.... what planet do you live on where the variance between psig and psia accounts for over 60 psi?
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Since I believe your only true teacher is yourself, I offer a means for understanding turbocharging basics, written by a man far more knowledgeable certainly more patient than myself.
Secure a copy of that book, and read it through in its entirety. After that, logical and meaningful questions will surely ensue.
The comment about disseminating knowledge with patience as teaching, vs dispersing it with disdain as arrogance fails to account for the fact that no teacher that has ever taught, did not expect the pupil to do the legwork. Knowledge is not merely transferred, from one person to the next, as if it were a bank transaction. It is learned. No teacher, however patient, can insert information into your head. You must learn it yourself. All they can do is provide the information in a logical manner, and in a timely fashion.
If we want to label people as teachers and pupils, then I am only as arrogant as any teacher who has ever grown frustrated with a student who at once demands explanation, yet who hasn't even completed the required reading which is a pre-requisite to the discussion in the first place. And furthermore, who while overhearing such explanation given, continues to insult the discussion by repeatedly asking the previously addressed question again and again.
A "Teacher" would have already pointed toward the door.
Secure a copy of that book, and read it through in its entirety. After that, logical and meaningful questions will surely ensue.
The comment about disseminating knowledge with patience as teaching, vs dispersing it with disdain as arrogance fails to account for the fact that no teacher that has ever taught, did not expect the pupil to do the legwork. Knowledge is not merely transferred, from one person to the next, as if it were a bank transaction. It is learned. No teacher, however patient, can insert information into your head. You must learn it yourself. All they can do is provide the information in a logical manner, and in a timely fashion.
If we want to label people as teachers and pupils, then I am only as arrogant as any teacher who has ever grown frustrated with a student who at once demands explanation, yet who hasn't even completed the required reading which is a pre-requisite to the discussion in the first place. And furthermore, who while overhearing such explanation given, continues to insult the discussion by repeatedly asking the previously addressed question again and again.
A "Teacher" would have already pointed toward the door.
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XLR8R
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Condescension rears it's head again. :banghead:
Next to Sir Henry Ricardo's work of so long ago, A. Graham Bell is IMO one of the best sources of accessible knowledge concerning forced induction systems.
While his resume' certainly has noteworthy accomplishments, I find Corky's dated work to be second-rate - specifically the mathematical liberty-taking, convoluted explanations, and opinion stated as fact.
Nice to have him in the library, but by no means a turbo bible! :Cheer:
Next to Sir Henry Ricardo's work of so long ago, A. Graham Bell is IMO one of the best sources of accessible knowledge concerning forced induction systems.
While his resume' certainly has noteworthy accomplishments, I find Corky's dated work to be second-rate - specifically the mathematical liberty-taking, convoluted explanations, and opinion stated as fact.
Nice to have him in the library, but by no means a turbo bible! :Cheer:
tony597fitter
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Since I believe your only true teacher is yourself, I offer a means for understanding turbocharging basics, written by a man far more knowledgeable certainly more patient than myself.
Secure a copy of that book, and read it through in its entirety. After that, logical and meaningful questions will surely ensue.
The comment about disseminating knowledge with patience as teaching, vs dispersing it with disdain as arrogance fails to account for the fact that no teacher that has ever taught, did not expect the pupil to do the legwork. Knowledge is not merely transferred, from one person to the next, as if it were a bank transaction. It is learned. No teacher, however patient, can insert information into your head. You must learn it yourself. All they can do is provide the information in a logical manner, and in a timely fashion.
If we want to label people as teachers and pupils, then I am only as arrogant as any teacher who has ever grown frustrated with a student who at once demands explanation, yet who hasn't even completed the required reading which is a pre-requisite to the discussion in the first place. And furthermore, who while overhearing such explanation given, continues to insult the discussion by repeatedly asking the previously addressed question again and again.
A "Teacher" would have already pointed toward the door.
VERY good book!
My bro bought it a few years ago and it sure makes everything easier to understand.
Yet of the handful of turbocharging books I own, his is the only one that doesn't botch up simple concepts like VE. There are plenty of flagrant errors out there in other sources. If you ever need a good laugh, check out the compound section in this book:
Read that section a few times before learning anything else, and you'll have your head so far up your own ass it would take weeks for someone to straighten you out.
In terms of Corky's book, care to compose a simple errata so that I might not go on unaware?
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I didn't realize that Maximum Boost, by Corky Bell, was a prerequisite for asking a question on a website called Competition Diesel. It was merely that; a question.
I'll make sure that I go check out every book involving turbochargers and diesel engines. Then read them, study them, and ensure that I can completely comprehend them, before I return to Competition Diesel with another question. That way young people like me don't waste the time or the breath of the all-mighty.
I'll make sure that I go check out every book involving turbochargers and diesel engines. Then read them, study them, and ensure that I can completely comprehend them, before I return to Competition Diesel with another question. That way young people like me don't waste the time or the breath of the all-mighty.
How about you just learn what a / symbol stands for before you get all huffy and puffy. If you can't take outlet/inlet without getting confused I don't see that you have any grounds for SA comments.
You RECEIVED a wonderful explanation PRIOR to the one I gave you... 33 posts ago to be exact.
Besides that, I tried to STOP our interaction quite a while back. Yet you found it useful to take a little jab because I didn't want to deal with you any farther. Well, is there some point to the extended discussion? Do you still have some question? How can I serve you?
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I didn't express concern over mathematical errors in Corky's book, you did. Since I've read the book front to back a few times, and read sections at a time in the bathroom a zillion times it should be rather clear that I am currently either ignorant to them, or find them irrelevant and as such have forgotten them.
However, what I don't recall in Corky's book are any diagrams with backward compressor wheels, anything about PR times compressor efficiency being the density ratio, nor anything about VE fluctuating as a fuction of boost.
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morkable
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Charles,, I just have to ask this question,,, do you have any children? If so, I sure hope that you dont treat them like you treat the members of this forum.
People are on this site to learn, sometimes things that may come very easy and straightforward to you, may not come that easy to others. Especially if they havent been immursed in this for any period of time.
I among others appreciate your knowledge, and welcome it. But when you run people down for asking a question, and start to pout and make asshole comments it makes you look like the bad guy. There are alot of guys on this site that have alot of knowledge and can manage to share it without being a jerk about it.
One more thing, you have to know it is bad when I say something, I have never berated one single member on this forum from the day I joined, and probably will never do it again, but I just had to say something here before this goes beyond stupid.
Kevin
People are on this site to learn, sometimes things that may come very easy and straightforward to you, may not come that easy to others. Especially if they havent been immursed in this for any period of time.
I among others appreciate your knowledge, and welcome it. But when you run people down for asking a question, and start to pout and make asshole comments it makes you look like the bad guy. There are alot of guys on this site that have alot of knowledge and can manage to share it without being a jerk about it.
One more thing, you have to know it is bad when I say something, I have never berated one single member on this forum from the day I joined, and probably will never do it again, but I just had to say something here before this goes beyond stupid.
Kevin
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It looks like I am not the only one who cannot read a SINGLE excerpt in book or read a SINGLE post in a thread ONE TIME to completely grasp the concept of compounding turbo chargers. Especially since that was the first time I have ever seen information on this subject in that kind of detail.
You said yourself that you read the book a FEW times and sections of the book a ZILLION times. If you already read over the explanation once and TOTALLY understood the concepts, what kept you going back?
One would only suspect that YOU TOO could not completely understand or retain the information from certain sections of the book the first time you read them.
coon smile
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Charles, I understand that you may be affraid to openly admit confusion or uncertainties, however I am not. I have come to the realization that I cannot understand everything, and I express that in the form of asking questions or asking for further explanation.
That's what you call a reference.
Kind of like.... what filler was suggested in the chapter on manifold design... or where to gusset? Which hardware type again....
That book, along with many others calls my downstairs bathroom home. As such, they get read quite often.
You could ask any one of a nearly infinite number of questions that I would not have even the faintest clue about. Outlet divided by inlet simply doesn't happen to be one of them.
What can I do to comfort you?
Maybe you can just start asking questions, and I promise that I will not use any outside sources for answers. Then, in rather short order I would imagine, you can surely rack up countless examples of things that I do not know, and that I cannot even provide the slightest explanation on.
Would that help?
coon smile
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In this case, I was using Competition Diesel as a reference. I use this website to learn, just as you used Corky Bell's book to learn.
That's what's nice about this forum. SOMETIMES you can ask questions (rudimentary or complex) and get LIVE positive feedback. You can't ask a book a question and get a response.
That's what's nice about this forum. SOMETIMES you can ask questions (rudimentary or complex) and get LIVE positive feedback. You can't ask a book a question and get a response.
It seems clear to me, based in no small part on the responses of others that I expected too much. Impractical expectations even.
I apologize for that.
Ask away. I have no doubt that you'll find more than enough people to quench your thirst for knowledge on the subject.
On Edit:
I have another idea. Since I acted like an ass, I'll give you the choice to call and either let me have it if you wish.... or to occupy as much of my time as you may or may not find useful, to ask as many questions about this as you want. I think you will quickly find that text is not for me.... but that voice works rather well.
Your choice. I'll keep my phone on.
678-878-6945
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