some tech help plz.....

triton

triton

Scarlet Fever
Joined
May 30, 2007
Messages
5,497
I just can't win.... I see all these cool diesels at the tracks, running great time and driving away.... I can't seem to get there.

Took my truck to the track yesterday and after a couple great 14.0's in the 1/4's the trouble set in.

Third run down the track at about the 1/8 the power changed from kickin' butt to spitting a sputtering and white smoke started to bello out.

I was running on the Smarty beta 4.3 #7 and had the TST on #2 and TT03 everything else was shut off. It saw some very high EGT's but, from what everyone has said... in a 1/4 race everyone does.

At the end the track crew is yelling at me to pull over and shut down ! They thought I was on fire there was so much smoke.

Popped the hood and it looked like a oil bomb went off in there. The entire engine compartment was covered in oil.

I have ARP studs so I don't believe my HG gave out. In looking at the motor I don't see any signs of HG failure either.... no water that I can tell in the oil.

What I do have is a ton of oil in the exhaust. At the clamp that connects the down pipe to my muffler, oil was pouring out... at least a quart or more.

I was figuring I blew out the turbo but, what's weird is the oil all over the motor seems to be more on the drivers side. The turbo barely had any oil on it.
My dip stick didn't blow out and neither did the vent tube.

Can you guys help me with some in site on what all could be wrong here ? Don't be shy... I can take. I played and now I pay... some more

The truck runs but, very rough. If I start it, the oil will start to drain from the exhaust, nothing but white smoke comes out but, I think that's because of so much oil in the exhaust.
 
Sounds like you fragged the turbo. Was this the stock turbo you were running? If it were me I wouldn't run the truck at all until you diagnose the problem. If parts of the turbo made it into the oil pan you can have alot of issues with damaging the oil pump, etc.
On the other hand, the oil on the driver side makes me think head gasket also. High egt's and the stack you were running along with a stock turbo (if it's stock) can create some crazy pressures and heat that NO stud would help maintain.
Keep us informed and hope it isn't as bad as it sounds.
 
trik396 said:
Sounds like you fragged the turbo. Was this the stock turbo you were running? If it were me I wouldn't run the truck at all until you diagnose the problem. If parts of the turbo made it into the oil pan you can have alot of issues with damaging the oil pump, etc.
On the other hand, the oil on the driver side makes me think head gasket also. High egt's and the stack you were running along with a stock turbo (if it's stock) can create some crazy pressures and heat that NO stud would help maintain.
Keep us informed and hope it isn't as bad as it sounds.
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Yes, it was the stock turbo. I ironically my HTT will be here Monday so, it's no big deal if the turbo is shot. That is as long as there no shrapnel that caused other damage like you mentioned.

Wouldn't I see the head gasket blown out around the head somewhere ? The egt's were through the roof. I asked here I believe about what you guys are seeing as far as egt's at the end of the 1/4. All the responses were " just keep your foot planted! I saw 1600 at about 3/4 of the way down the 1/4.
 
triton said:
Yes, it was the stock turbo. I ironically my HTT will be here Monday so, it's no big deal if the turbo is shot. That is as long as there no shrapnel that caused other damage like you mentioned.

Wouldn't I see the head gasket blown out around the head somewhere ? The egt's were through the roof. I asked here I believe about what you guys are seeing as far as egt's at the end of the 1/4. All the responses were " just keep your foot planted! I saw 1600 at about 3/4 of the way down the 1/4.
Click to expand...

No you wouldn't neccesarily see any gasket blown out. Alot of times they blow between the cylinders. I don't know who gave you that advice about keeping your foot planted. You've got some serious power capability with your boxes/programmer BUT you're running the stock turbo. 1600 at 3/4 track could be over 2000 degrees at the end... Who knows. That was just plain horrible advise. I really hope you didn't destroy your motor. I don't want to sound like doom and gloom. Just trying to be straight with you. Do you have a diesel mechanic who can diagnose the problems?
 
he was drag racing, so of course his foot needed to be planted, only prob was his turbo imploded---sounds like the exhaust side let go--hopefully that is what happened---diagnose the turbo and do what's necessary and slap the new one on and get back after it---chris
 
triton, remove your intercooler and piping. flush them out real good. pull your intake horn and grid heater and clean them as well. remove that stock grenade and check for inducer and exducer damage. sounds like you at least blew out the seals on the turbo and pumped all the oil out, but you never know. My opinion is with all those boxes on your truck, this stuff is going to happen alot. Pick a programmer and abox that make the power you are happy with and then add fuel mechanically. your engine will thank you.$.02
 
Most the time eating a charger won't do engine damage. Change the oil, cut open the oil filter and look inside.

If the compresser wheel is missing pieces, you might need to replace or clean out the intercooler.

5 seconds at 1600 deg plus seldom causes a problem all by itself. Most likely you ran the charger so far off it's map that it overspeeded and destroyed the bearing. Unlike EGT's, overspeeding can trash a charger instantly.

It is very hard to keep EGT's sane and make big power at the same time. Normally once you have acceptable EGT's, then you will add more fuel. ;)
 
Hmmmm

Sounds like at least two problems. White smoke isn't oil. Easy to check and a high probablility is you blew the freeze plug out on the back of the motor. I'd ck that 1st.

The oil could be a lot of things. Just need to ck it out systematiclly. If it still runs then put some dye in it after cleaning off the engine as best you can and see where it's coming from.
 
thanks for all the advise guys. The motor is soaking now.

IF ! they did what I asked when the tranny was out, the rear freeze plug should already be capped. I'll look into that.

I don't have a diesel mechanic so, I'm somewhat on my own. If all else fails, I'll have to tow the truck 3hrs away to Olee Poole who I hear is a good mechanic?
That's what I get for livin' deep in the mountains.

From what you guys are saying, It sounds like what I need to do first is remove the turbo and look for damage there ? With the oil I have in the exhaust, I'm willing to bet I blew the seal in the turbo.

Where all the engine compartment oil came from is what gets me. At the track in trying to figure out what happen I ran the truck for a minute and the only oil I could see coming from anywhere was, out of the exhaust. I don't know that dye will do anything for me.

I suppose the white smoke is oiling burning in the exhaust but, I suppose I could have blown some injectors too ? I have some F-1's in the works so, that can be dealt with.

I'll report back when the turbos out
 
Ok, I got the turbo out and also took the exhaust manifold off.

4,5 & 6 cylinders were wet with oil in the ports. More in 4 & 5... 6 was a little dry. The turbo didn't have any shrapnel but, the exhaust side wheel has a grind to it when turned. It does spin freely but slowly and sounds/feels like it has sand in it.

If the seal on the exhaust side of the turbo went out, would that cause oil to back up into the exhaust ports ? I'm grasping here hoping I don't have piston problems.

I don't have water in the oil so, does that rule out a head gasket ?

This is my plan.... replace the injectors, turbo and exhaust manifold. I have a ATS manifold that's been waiting on my turbo.

When that's done.... dare I crank it ? Or, since there oil in the exhaust ports....do I need to break the motor down to check valves and pistons ?
 
When my turbo blew (sent the shaft and wheel out the tailpipe). Oil filled the exhaust, but didn't go anywhere else. When I blew the head gasket, everything on the outside looked fine, opened up the radiator and it was black, and my turbo on the exhaust side was covered in oil (different turbo). It let go on both sides of #5. Of course I couldn't tell until I ripped the head off. But mine wasn't just a "blow out" when the head gasket went. I don't think I realized it for over a month :bang

I was going to ask if the turbo could send oil through the intake side as well. I know it's sent pieces of the turbo before. But it wouldn't make sense for it to only be the rear 3 cylinders. I'm just thinkin outload here
 
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The oil level is low but, obviously from being lost out of the exhaust. In removing the turbo, there's no evidence that oil went in the intercoolers direction. All the oil was on the exhaust side.

Would you guys say it's imperative to pull the head?
 
I hope an engine builder will post and give more substantial advice here. I don't know if the oil from the turbo could/would work it's way up into the 4,5, and 6 exhaust manifold ports. To me, it doesn't seem plausible but that doesn't mean it can't happen. Maybe you should PM some of the guys here or elsewhere who are more in the know. I really hope all is ok with your engine. I feel bad for you because I know I would feel terrible in your situation.
You checked coolant, correct?
The only thing I can think of besides pulling the head is if you had some type of borescope and you pulled an injector from one of those cylinders to see what's going on in there.
 
If the charger wasn't spinning fast, and drive pressure was going nuts, you could certainly push oil past the compressor. This is how some "runaway diesel" accidents happen.

I'd slap a charger on it, and fire it up if it were my truck (as I have done before). What to you have to lose?
 
I wouldn't know who to PM ... I'm hoping maybe a good mechanic will see this thread. I do appreciate the help your giving though.

Yep... check the coolant and it good. Actually over flowed a little when I opened it. I suppose between that and no water in the oil it's a good chance there's nothing wrong with the HG. Doesn't quite rule out internal stuff tho.

Yeah... this does suck but, I can live with it. I played and now it's time to pay. I'm finding the weak spots though which need to be dealt with if I'm gonna run the tracks. I'll give me a chance to build the motor from the inside out if necessary... not looking forward to it but....
 
McRat said:
If the charger wasn't spinning fast, and drive pressure was going nuts, you could certainly push oil past the compressor. This is how some "runaway diesel" accidents happen.

I'd slap a charger on it, and fire it up if it were my truck (as I have done before). What to you have to lose?
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You know, at the end of the track when this all happen.... the truck didn't want to stop. The idle stayed up. This led me to think it may be injectors but, by what you're saying.... it could have been the turbo causing the run on ?

My concern about just installing the turbo and crankin' it up is, doing more damage internally if there is any... that or ruining a new turbo.

Is there a compression test that can or should be done before cranking it? The scope idea is a good one but would surely need to be done by someone who know what they're looking at.

I guess since mechanics are few and far between around here, I'm gonna need to just install the turbo. I think I'll also do the injectors. If it runs like caca after that... then I'll be pissed cause I'll know it's more than an easy fix.
 
does this info help any.....

the coolant level is full. No sign of water in the oil BUT, the oil smells really weird. Not like it has fuel in it but, a very stinky pungent smell. I took off the valve cover and it was almost overwhelming.
 
drain the oil and let it sit the oil and antifreeze will separate if there is any in it. the antifreeze will go to the bottom. there is a compression test that can be done on gas engines were they screw a pressure sensor into the sparkplug port not really sure if this is available for diesels. i would pull and clean out your down pipe and replace the exhaust manifold and turbo with the new ones you got and start it up. the oil on the drivers side sounds like the exhaust side of the turbo slowed up causing the drive pressure to build way to hig causing the seal to break. the drive pressure most likely escaped thru the oil blow by. this would ahve blown oil all over the drivers side of the engine and once you slowed down the oil started running out the exhaust side of the turbo. i would suggest not only running a EGT gauge but also a drive pressure gauge.
 
SKYNYRD said:
drain the oil and let it sit the oil and antifreeze will separate if there is any in it. the antifreeze will go to the bottom. there is a compression test that can be done on gas engines were they screw a pressure sensor into the sparkplug port not really sure if this is available for diesels. i would pull and clean out your down pipe and replace the exhaust manifold and turbo with the new ones you got and start it up. the oil on the drivers side sounds like the exhaust side of the turbo slowed up causing the drive pressure to build way to hig causing the seal to break. the drive pressure most likely escaped thru the oil blow by. this would ahve blown oil all over the drivers side of the engine and once you slowed down the oil started running out the exhaust side of the turbo. i would suggest not only running a EGT gauge but also a drive pressure gauge.
Click to expand...


Man I hope you're right. If though.... the oil in the exhaust came from the exhaust ports ( internally ) and not the turbo and when I crank it up oil flows through the new turbo, will that damage it ?

You don't hear about drive pressure gauges much. Who and why has them ?
 
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