Someone had to do it, cummins tubular manifold.

I been researchin this for a few years now and im about ready to do mine but it is rather disheartening that nobody ever posts updates or shows the finished product with graph numbers and such. Bummer oh well. I guess I'll be the first to come thru for everybody. Mine will be this summer.
 
Nice work Passanger

The headers are quite that much , I have them in stock for 12 valve 24 valve and CR for $975

here is a CR
100_0464.jpg

here is the 12 valve ,
Header5_9.jpg


here is one with the ED wastegate T3 to T4 adapter

100_0519.jpg


here is the adapter

006_105182006_std.jpg


here is it on X
100_0523.jpg


Here is Greg and I working on his now famous side draft CR , it’s important to note that tuned runners have to be continuous from valve to plenum, with is impractical in a CR due to Siamese ports from adjacent cylinders . Greg dose do 12 valve individual runner manifolds in stainless for some of the big pullers, but those manifolds are not something Greg will show pictures of , he is also do a tripal charger 4BT manifold also

100_0276.jpg


Here is a Duramax tuned intake runner for my new dragster
dmax_intake08003copy.jpg


here is the header

dmax_headers081copy.jpg
 
here is a datalog of Project X diesel , notice the egts on top of each other
TEXASMILE161F.jpg
 
First off props on creating a very nice looking piece. I'm sure there's a ton of R&D, fabrication, etc. going into something like that!!!

Now getting into the whole equal length this harmonic that scavenging this from a questions standpoint on my part. I'm also familiar with the typical lengths that work for gas motors and the effects of the harmonic/wave tuning phenomenon as they relate in naturally aspirated performance. But with a turbo charger since the media these harmonics/waves travel through is denser thanks to back pressure induced by the turbine housing doesn't that create a difference in optimal lengths for a given rpm vs. that of a naturally aspirated gas motor with no turbine in the mix to create a bottle neck???
 
Kind of like I already said.......equal length doesn't matter but it sure made that header a whole lot harder to build.

Jim
 
COMP461 said:
here is a datalog of Project X diesel , notice the egts on top of each other
TEXASMILE161F.jpg
Click to expand...


Looking at the graph for rpm during the run, what happens during the 8 to 9 second range? Is this the start of T/C lockup or the shift to 4th immediately following by T/C lockup? It appears as though you went from 1st to 2nd to 3rd to 4th, then locked the T/C, then shifted to 5th... What tranny are you using?
 
NickTF said:
First off props on creating a very nice looking piece. I'm sure there's a ton of R&D, fabrication, etc. going into something like that!!!

Now getting into the whole equal length this harmonic that scavenging this from a questions standpoint on my part. I'm also familiar with the typical lengths that work for gas motors and the effects of the harmonic/wave tuning phenomenon as they relate in naturally aspirated performance. But with a turbo charger since the media these harmonics/waves travel through is denser thanks to back pressure induced by the turbine housing doesn't that create a difference in optimal lengths for a given rpm vs. that of a naturally aspirated gas motor with no turbine in the mix to create a bottle neck???
Click to expand...

Also think of it as it is hitting a brick wall, your sending the fuel into an area that has pressure built up against it. I guess you could say that the lengths of pipe are allowed to absorb the discharge from the individual cylinders, since the pipes don't meet until the charger area. Kind of like a two stroke. The twin two stroke engines gain some(10-15%) Hp but a triple with individual tuned pipes will gain like 30%.
 
GOT-Torque said:
Looking at the graph for rpm during the run, what happens during the 8 to 9 second range? Is this the start of T/C lockup or the shift to 4th immediately following by T/C lockup? It appears as though you went from 1st to 2nd to 3rd to 4th, then locked the T/C, then shifted to 5th... What tranny are you using?
Click to expand...
I use a gear vendor over drive , this is a 35 second 160 + mph land speed pass.
I don't know what that blip was , I didnt feel it
 
zstroken said:
Also think of it as it is hitting a brick wall, your sending the fuel into an area that has pressure built up against it. I guess you could say that the lengths of pipe are allowed to absorb the discharge from the individual cylinders, since the pipes don't meet until the charger area. Kind of like a two stroke. The twin two stroke engines gain some(10-15%) Hp but a triple with individual tuned pipes will gain like 30%.
Click to expand...

The thing that gets me here is that for the resonator/wave tuning phenomenon to occur the pulse down the primary has to travel into a collector which is at a negative pressure (negative compared to the pressure in the primary) and I’m just not sure that's the case with a turbo charged apps. Also, I don't know much about the exhaust pulses of the inline 6 which I’m sure are very different then v8s as the terminus of the exhaust manifold shares the same area where as in a v8 the two banks of the motors share two different terminuses but equal length primaries in headers and equal length runners in intakes only seem to be good in very narrow band operation in v8 apps. If all scavenging occurred only in the exact same rpm window created by all equal length primaries/runners you would realize a greater peak but less area under the curve. I believe nascar combinations often use different cam timing on each individual cylinder to spread the power curve as by doing so you'll create 8 different specific rpm ranges the motor operates in, one for each cylinder!

Bottom line is that I’d guess only really maximization of flow would be important in design of a manifold like this but I'm sure there's something I’m missing. That's why there are tons of people with millions of dollars testing these things out all the time:ft:
 
equal length is a joke at the best of times - it is theoretical that at a very specific rpm range which is usually about 500 rpm anywhere in the band, that you can tune a set of headers or a manifold by altering the length and diameter and/or a combination of the two.

Various things like inverse collectors and stepped piping try to expand that range mostly with little success.

For a turbo motor the most important is diameter, then length, both being as small as possible but large enough not to be the choke point.

This keeps the velocity up and the heat energy from being wasted.

Nice pieces for sure - now wrap em in heat wrap n your good to go
 
seeker1056 said:
equal length is a joke at the best of times - it is theoretical that at a very specific rpm range which is usually about 500 rpm anywhere in the band, that you can tune a set of headers or a manifold by altering the length and diameter and/or a combination of the two.

Various things like inverse collectors and stepped piping try to expand that range mostly with little success.

For a turbo motor the most important is diameter, then length, both being as small as possible but large enough not to be the choke point.

This keeps the velocity up and the heat energy from being wasted.

Nice pieces for sure - now wrap em in heat wrap n your good to go
Click to expand...
:clap::clap::clap:Someone that gets it.:rockwoot::rockwoot::rockwoot:
 
We don't need to scavenge the exhaust gases, to help draw in the intake charge during overlap. We need to contain the heat inside the exhaust manifold, make a smooth transition into the turbine housing. Pressures are lost as exhaust gases begin to cool. That pressure turns the turbine wheel. Those headers do look great, I would like to see a direct head to head test on a couple of trucks, to verify or dispell what we all think.
 
WICKEDDIESELS said:
We don't need to scavenge the exhaust gases, to help draw in the intake charge during overlap. We need to contain the heat inside the exhaust manifold, make a smooth transition into the turbine housing. Pressures are lost as exhaust gases begin to cool. That pressure turns the turbine wheel. Those headers do look great, I would like to see a direct head to head test on a couple of trucks, to verify or dispell what we all think.
Click to expand...

thats why i never understood those STS turbo kits the mount back at the rear of the vehicle...there is alot of heat/pressure lost before the turbine, but of course if you talk to the gasser know it alls they will tell you that turbos are spooled with the velocity of the gasses at high rpm
 
dude that is good stuff i wont to know what it sounds like

vary nice work

that would look bad a** with a ps71 :st:

what is price tag
 
X2 on the price and sound. any sound difference at all?
someone needs to dyno a stocker, ATS type and one of these back to back
 
This is only one component of the system. Anyone that is trying to build an engine to be fully balanced flow wise will want equal length in/out of the cylinders to flow match the engine so #3 isnt making 4% more power or running hotter than #6.
 
The energy contained within the exhaust tract that is available to drive the turbine is comprised of the thermal energy (expansion) and kinetic energy (flow velocity) states of the individual gas molecules... so in that respect, the remote-mount turbochargers do rely heavily on drive pressure resulting from exhaust gas velocity.

Obviously, it's more efficient to mount the turbo close to the exhaust ports, where much more heat energy is available to perform expansion drive pressure work on the turbine.

I believe the main benefit of tubular exhaust manifolds is derived from the reduced thermal mass (and therefore heat sink) they present to the exhaust gas temperature, and from the decrease in flow resistance - which magnifies the pressure delta across the turbine.
 
getblown5.9 said:
thats why i never understood those STS turbo kits the mount back at the rear of the vehicle...there is alot of heat/pressure lost before the turbine, but of course if you talk to the gasser know it alls they will tell you that turbos are spooled with the velocity of the gasses at high rpm
Click to expand...

I'm with you on this one but I've talked to people running them in person and they flat out love them. They light really fast and run great. Personally, I wouldn't want my 1600*+ turbo exposed to ice cold water that easily.
 
Same here, Tyler - I used to think they were silly until I saw results from using them... and the folks running them love 'em!

Maybe a remote 'charger is like twins; even a mediocre set works so much better that it's hard not to like the improvement.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top