Spent alot of money today, what's next?

Everybody keeps telling me to get gauges. From what I understand the Edge Juice with Attitude comes with:
-trans. temp
-boost
-EGT.
-fuel pressure at the inlet of the VP44
and it piggybacks coolant temp and oil pressure off the factory computer.
Am I wrong? Did I order the wrong unit?

RV 275 injectors? I'm going to assume they are close to the Bosch 275's that BgBlDodge recommended? Just trying to get a popular vote as to which one's would suit me best. Also the 275's are what 40hp or 90hp or 1,500,000hp? Thanks for your guy's input, I am flying blind here and don't want to solely take advice from the guy I am writing checks to if you know what I mean.
 
Ok, I now feel stooooopid, Juice with Attitude does indeed have gauges, still trying to wrap my puny mind around that fact :bang LOL LOL

The RV275/Bosch 275 injectors are called such since they are for the 275HP rated version of the VP equipped 5.9 Cummins motor. It was commonly used in RV's, hence the "RV" designation. If you find a good flow matched set of them you can pick up a solid 50HP with very little smoke and EGT's that stay under control. The 50 HP figure is based on everything else being stock, add more fuel and timing through the Edge and you can see upwards of 100HP total gain.


I will say this, power is fun, but a truck with a good box, small set of injectors like the 275's, and a good tranny is just plain fun to drive, no worries, no finesse, just drive it.
 
Bosch RV 275 injectors came in Motorhomes equipped with the VP44 24valve engines rated at 275 hp at the flywheel. Thats where the 275 comes from. You have a Standard output Cummins, rated at 235hp at the flywheel, so the theory is that these injectors give about 40hp at the flywheel.

Just about every other injector will be rated by the potential REAR wheel hp gain they can provide. This is kind of a good estimate by the manufacturer, because dyno testing shows they can produce more or less than the rated hp increase, depending on supporting mods.

A stock SO Cummins probably puts down about 190 rwhp (just a guess, every truck is different), so a 90 horse injector will supposedly bring that up to around 280 with supporting mods.

Does that help?

Josh D

Edit: got beat to this one!
 
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best bet for cheap improvment is the jammers or the rv275's. nice part about the jammers is 5 levels to choose from. but mileage is based on the driver more than the parts, IMO.
 
Everyone's advice helps. Thank you. So a couple more questions before I head off to bed.

1) Where is a good place to source these magical 275's?
2) For fuel mileage I would want the Edge on setting 1?
3) For power I would want the Edge on setting 6?
4) When does the truck become no fun? I'll explain. Story time.

I bought a brand new 2001 Mustang GT. It was great had alot of fun with it until I went to the track and got smoked by LS1's. Then came some small mods, bolt on's and drag radials. It dynoed at 260hp and 300trq. Reasonable gains that made the car fun without trade offs. I drove it across country to St. Louis and Tampa without a single issue many times. Then I thought I had to put a supercharger on it. I lost alot of fuel mileage from 20ish to 15ish although I gained to 434/404. Still wasn't a terrible car but started busting stock 5 speeds, breaking stock rearends, axles and finally toasted the stock motor. This is where sanity went out the window. I put a drag race style rear suspension, tubular suspension up front, built rear, forged shortblock, heads, cams you name it. Finally the 6 point rollcage went in and it seems I am building a new shortblock every year. I haven't even driven the car down the track yet this year although it would be a 10 second ride if I would finish the fuel system up. The car hasn't been inspected since May of 2005. Everywhere it goes it stays on the trailer. In March it dynoed at 580/545 and that was only turning it to 5300rpms, where it started losing fuel pressure. So once the fuel system is installed it should be good for 650 hp. I absolutely HATE the car and want my 260/300 car back.

Moral of the story, I don't want to sacrifice driveability or much fuel mileage in the hunt for power. I also doubt these Cummins are nearly as cheap to build as a 4.6. I am pretty sure I don't have to worry about going over the top with the mods I have in mind, but where is the high watermark for stock-like driveability and respectable fuel mileage all without sacrificing engine durability? 400 hp? 500hp?
 
I've got buddy's daily driving 600+hp trucks with no problems. The beauty of these trucks is that you can lay down big numbers, turn the boxes down, and drive around at a conservative power number. My buddy's at 600+ daily drive around 400-450hp. And even at that point, your not making all that power cause your not driving around at WOT all day so in reality you might only be hitting 250-300hp for daily driving.
 
BgBlDodge said:
I've got buddy's daily driving 600+hp trucks with no problems. The beauty of these trucks is that you can lay down big numbers, turn the boxes down, and drive around at a conservative power number. My buddy's at 600+ daily drive around 400-450hp. And even at that point, your not making all that power cause your not driving around at WOT all day so in reality you might only be hitting 250-300hp for daily driving.
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So these 600 hp trucks are VP44 trucks? Am I right in assuming level 1 for mileage, level 6 for power?
 
Thats a good point, but its hard to say at what hp level you lose drivability. Depends on the setup, and as you'll find there are just so many ways to go with these things. But there are many people driving these trucks every day, getting good mileage, with over 500hp on tap.
 
Yes they had VP44's, if they had adjustable chips, or could have been CR's.
 
s281jim said:
So these 600 hp trucks are VP44 trucks? Am I right in assuming level 1 for mileage, level 6 for power?
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All vp's.

Like limited said, it's all in the setup. You can have a hot, laggy, smokey, 500hp or you can have a quick, clean, cool 500hp. Just depends on how you set the truck up.
 
s281jim said:
I left the reciept at home, it was something like this:

Tranny and converter: $3600
Flex plate: $450
Input shaft: $650
Edge juice w/attitude: $650
4" aluminized exhaust that they get mandrel bent locally $350
And I guess according to my math $500 tax and shipping?

I went to Apple Hill 4x4. They are a local dealer so I don't have to worry about core charge. Also they said they never have any trouble talking to Goerand about warranty work. I originally only wanted a billet flex plate. After I left their shop they called me and said they talked to Goerand on the phone and he has seen an increase in broken input shafts with billet flex plates, and he highly recomends billet inputs with billet flex plates.

How about some specific recomendations on injectors?
I am thinking an Airdog 150 would be large enough?
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Last i checked his tranny was 3550. convertor 1300...
 
Don't waste your time with RV275s. With the transmission you are getting you will be ready for a LOT more than the RVs. Those are for towing at high elevations at most; I installed a set and was disappointed, and went with Mach 1.6 instead. Made me a whole lot happier, big difference from stock or the 275s. Since you are going for creme de la creme, make the damage a nice $10k and get the best: a set of twin turbos (or a really nice single) and Mach 4 injectors - they will work good at your elevation. You will not recognize your truck!
 
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PaulDaisy said:
Don't waste your time with RV275s. With the transmission you are getting you will be ready for a LOT more than the RVs. Those are for towing at high elevations at most; I installed a set and was disappointed, and went with Mach 1.6 instead. Made me a whole lot happier, big difference from stock or the 275s. Since you are going for creme de la creme, make the damage a nice $10k and get the best: a set of twin turbos (or a really nice single) and Mach 4 injectors - they will work good at your elevation. You will not recognize your truck!
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Thanks for your advice but I already have set a personal limit not to go crazy on this truck. At this time. Maybe later. Can anyone recommend a good read on diesel performance. All the magazines I have bought seem to be advertisements for various shops without any good tech. Are there any recent books that have came out to help me get an idea of where I want to go with this? Maybe a book with an emphasis on 24V cummins?
 
I would say, forums are a good read. Turbo diesel register and diesel truck resource. Lots of knowledge, experiences and biases, and lots of sections to read up, split up by the interest area so it is easy to navigate.
 
s281jim said:
Thanks for your advice but I already have set a personal limit not to go crazy on this truck. At this time. Maybe later. Can anyone recommend a good read on diesel performance. All the magazines I have bought seem to be advertisements for various shops without any good tech. Are there any recent books that have came out to help me get an idea of where I want to go with this? Maybe a book with an emphasis on 24V cummins?
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Insofar as I know, there is not a single book or magazine with what you are looking for, mainly because what is best changes so often. As manufacturer A brings out their new product it's the greatest according to who you talk to, or the worst. What I have found is to read up on forums like this one, (Which BTW, I believe the single best for pure performance info) see what works for folks who are using their trucks in the same manner and go from there.

You asked about mileage, level 1 might, or might not be the best for mileage. All you can do is play with the various levels and the fueling to see, most of the time you will see the best with the midrange levels due to increased timing. My truck will get a pretty consistent 11-12MPG towing a rather large camper at 75 with the comp on level 2, drop it to level 1 and I loose 1-2 MPG, same if I bump up one to level three. Took me a couple tanks of fuel to figure out, but worth it in the end.

Where do these trucks get to be "un-fun" you ask? There is no set answer for that, all depends on personal preference. You can add much larger injectors and twin turbos and have a 500HP tow monster that will be a BLAST to drive, buuuutt then you are looking at retourqing the head and a few other things. The good news is most of the time these are one time deals. As for the bottom end of these motors? Keep it under 600 with reasonable EGT's and have no worries, stock motors have held 7-800HP without to much fuss.

Hope this helps.
 
I bought a FASS 150 system and a set of Bosch RV 275's today. That should do it for awhile. One quick question. I have been 'searching' the site reading old threads, and basically I want to keep the EGT's below 1300? And if they get above 1300 regularly I should jump from a HX-35 to a HX-40? Does this sound about right? Thanks, I have a feeling that a year from now I will be reading my old posts and laughing hard.
 
You can go over 1300* no problem. Just don't hold it for more than a few seconds. My motor has seen north of 1600* more than a few times and still has perfect compression. Heck it sees 1400* on a daily basis. The juice and 275's are definitely gonna put you in the hot EGT category but nothing you can't control with your right foot.
 
BgBlDodge said:
You can go over 1300* no problem. Just don't hold it for more than a few seconds. My motor has seen north of 1600* more than a few times and still has perfect compression. Heck it sees 1400* on a daily basis. The juice and 275's are definitely gonna put you in the hot EGT category but nothing you can't control with your right foot.
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The Edge Juice has a defueling feature that will cut fuel at a certain EGT, I think. So if I set it at 1300 it should protect me........ I guess I will have to experiment with it. Are you saying that 1400 is OK if it's only for a short time?
 
1400* is fine for short periods. 1600* is fine for short periods. But for towing I wouldn't sustain anything over 1250-1300*.
 
BgBlDodge said:
1400* is fine for short periods. 1600* is fine for short periods. But for towing I wouldn't sustain anything over 1250-1300*.
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How fast do EGT's climb? Can they instantaneously jump from say 1000 to 1400, or will they climb at a rate where I will be able to anticipate troubles?
 
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