timing and nitrous

morkable

morkable

Just Over Broke
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
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I want to get everyones opinion on how much timing I should be able to get away with while running nitrous. Right now I have my smarty on level 8 no additional timing,,,
 
NOS and timing

I don't pull any out. I run it with the same timing I run without nitrous. Others may not agree but that is what works for me. I don't fill a diesel works like a gas motor with nitrous. In a diesel you need heat and diesel to burn, you can't lite the fire until the diesel is injected in. My thought's are why would you back the timing down(make more egt heat) when all you are doing is adding more air. Do the big turbo guys back there timing down? Just my thought's from a nitrous gas guy now playing with diesel's. Jeff
 
I thought the difference lies in extreamly cold air, not just more of the same temp air
 
The oxygen in air is about 21%, in nitrous we are closer to 36%. This being said the speed at which the burn takes place is much faster and hotter (think acetylene torch). Thus peak cylinder pressure is reached earlier than just using atmospheric air, just how much earlier is the question......

Doug
 
So,, if my thinking is sound,, I should be able to bump it up to level 9,, but no added timing, without any issues?
 
NOS

I still don't by the faster burn. It still has to inject the fuel to start the burn. You have to make more cylinder pressure to make more power. It's hard enough to get the fuel to burn fast enough at high rpm. Just my thought's. I sure would like to hear from one of the Banks crew on this. Jeff
 
Stingpuller said:
I still don't by the faster burn. It still has to inject the fuel to start the burn. You have to make more cylinder pressure to make more power. It's hard enough to get the fuel to burn fast enough at high rpm. Just my thought's. I sure would like to hear from one of the Banks crew on this. Jeff
Click to expand...

You are correct that the actual injection event takes place at the same time, but what I am talking about is the speed at which the fuel is burned. I have used nitrous since 1999 on diesel trucks and have a little first hand knowledge of how it works...... :poke:
 
So,, if my thinking is sound,, I should be able to bump it up to level 9,, but no added timing, without any issues?
Click to expand...

Are you running the TNT-R? Not really a specific answer to your question, but I've tried levels 7, 8, and 9 manually setting the timing to 3 on all of them, all other settings the same. For me, 8 smoked like a pig and wouldn't make any power at all compared to 7 and 9.

I'm sure you've seen this before, but here it is copied again:

TNT Timing Degree's
#4=16* max
#3=18* max
#2=21* max
#1=12* max

ALSO take note added pressure adds approx. 3-5* more.same with water/meth if you use a 50/50 mix less if you use the windshield washer stuff.
--Eric
 
NOS

We agree to disagree then. Nobody can tell me why it would burn faster than a bigger turbo with cooler air. It's just air. Nitrous by itself will not burn. That's cool, I know you have played with it a time or two I would just like a answer and not just because. Thanks Jeff
 
if your not toasting pistons running timeing cranked up then its not hurting anything right? i know if you are running to much timeing with to much meth it clatters, and rattles bad when it comes on
 
Timing

Yes meth can and may do that. It will burn by itself without the help of the diesel to get it going. Jeff
 
Nitrous

Nitrous burns faster than a engine with a bigger turbo and more boost, because nitrous is (1) higher a amount of oxygen content, (2) Much colder/denser charge.

High boost creates more PSI in the intake ports/track, that creates heat, heat minimizes the air density, thus the availible oxygen here is less potent, than a much colder and denser nitrous charge.

I do like to drop timing when nitrous is added, because it will keep CP close to the same as a high timing/high boost fuel engine, but with more efficient and cleaner power. If you have a combo with high timing, high boost, and nitrous, is is a recipe for engine damage due to too much CP.

My recommendation to the thread poster is to stay between 16-19* timing advance with nitrous.
Hope this helps.
 
Extreme Engines said:
Nitrous burns faster than a engine with a bigger turbo and more boost, because nitrous is (1) higher a amount of oxygen content, (2) Much colder/denser charge.

High boost creates more PSI in the intake ports/track, that creates heat, heat minimizes the air density, thus the availible oxygen here is less potent, than a much colder and denser nitrous charge.

I do like to drop timing when nitrous is added, because it will keep CP close to the same as a high timing/high boost fuel engine, but with more efficient and cleaner power. If you have a combo with high timing, high boost, and nitrous, is is a recipe for engine damage due to too much CP.

My recommendation to the thread poster is to stay between 16-19* timing advance with nitrous.
Hope this helps.
Click to expand...


16-19 range with "any amount" of spray? Care to elaborate on an amount here?
 
Stingpuller said:
We agree to disagree then. Nobody can tell me why it would burn faster than a bigger turbo with cooler air. It's just air. Nitrous by itself will not burn. That's cool, I know you have played with it a time or two I would just like a answer and not just because. Thanks Jeff
Click to expand...

It burns faster due to the oxygen saturation..... You can compress atmospheric air a ton and never reach the oxygen levels obtained in nitrous oxide. When nitrous oxide is introduced into our cylinders the oxygen molecule breaks from the two nitrogen molecules around 600*F. Neither nitrogen or oxygen in itself is a combustable (fuel) but oxygen readily supports combustion and rapidly speeds up the burn rate of the vailable fuel. Thus the point of peak cylinder pressure is reached sooner.
 
Jetpilot said:
The oxygen in air is about 21%, in nitrous we are closer to 36%. This being said the speed at which the burn takes place is much faster and hotter (think acetylene torch). Thus peak cylinder pressure is reached earlier than just using atmospheric air, just how much earlier is the question......

Doug
Click to expand...

Right on jet pilot...... I will throw this comment out there & see how it goes over

" the people that think n20 can be used in place of an intercooler are stupid!!!"

I will be on stand by waiting for cump 462 to reply......
 
Jetpilot said:
It burns faster due to the oxygen saturation..... You can compress atmospheric air a ton and never reach the oxygen levels obtained in nitrous oxide. When nitrous oxide is introduced into our cylinders the oxygen molecule breaks from the two nitrogen molecules around 600*F. Neither nitrogen or oxygen in itself is a combustable (fuel) but oxygen readily supports combustion and rapidly speeds up the burn rate of the vailable fuel. Thus the point of peak cylinder pressure is reached sooner.
Click to expand...

Yup ...Ok here is another way to look at it...... Ask the astronauts that were sitting in the Gemini program when it caught fire...... More o2 changes everything!!!things get hotttttt!!!!!! Fastttt!
 
ENafziger said:
Are you running the TNT-R? Not really a specific answer to your question, but I've tried levels 7, 8, and 9 manually setting the timing to 3 on all of them, all other settings the same. For me, 8 smoked like a pig and wouldn't make any power at all compared to 7 and 9.

I'm sure you've seen this before, but here it is copied again:

TNT Timing Degree's
#4=16* max
#3=18* max
#2=21* max
#1=12* max

ALSO take note added pressure adds approx. 3-5* more.same with water/meth if you use a 50/50 mix less if you use the windshield washer stuff.
--Eric
Click to expand...


What are the timing differences between level 8 and level 9?
 
Is there a typo in those numbers, Eric?

#1 is the least degrees, #2 is highest then tapers down again through #3 & #4?
 
so do you beleive that if your running a low setting like #3 (this is a second gen) on the smarty and only spraying 100 shot do you think its worth backing the timing down? how much does spray increase your timing? this is interesting never dealt with nitours before
 
morkable said:
What are the timing differences between level 8 and level 9?
Click to expand...

XLR8R said:
Is there a typo in those numbers, Eric?

#1 is the least degrees, #2 is highest then tapers down again through #3 & #4?
Click to expand...

On the TNT the default for 8 is 1, the default for 9 is 2. You can change either one to any level. Not sure what other differences there between odd/even. I have tried 6,7,8,9 with defualt and all the other settings. I can't really tell much difference between 6 and 7 or 8 and 9 with the timing set the same. I don't have enough mods to run 8 or 9, 7 works best for me with timing 3.

That is not a typo. That is the correct relationship for numbers to the amount of timing.
 
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