timing and nitrous

Just a comparison on timing settings. The TST with timing option comes default with 12* timing and is adjustable in 3* increments to 21*.

So it seems that two different manufactures on opposite ends of the rainbow come up with about the same general timing settings and options.
 
Anyone who has taken a college entry level chemistry class can attest to what added oxygen does to burn rate. On the first day of class, the prof lit a balloon full of pure hydrogen. It makes a small bang and a large fireball as the hydrogen wafts out and mixes with the atmospheric oxygen.

Next the prof lit a balloon with a nearly perfect mix of 2 parts Hydrogen to 1 part Oxygen. The Bang was Loud and created a noticeable shockwave. The fireball was small, intense, and much brighter. The second balloon actually had less fuel than the first but the rate of combustion was much higher with the oxygen fuel mixture perfectly balanced and the bang was 10 times louder.

Those arguing that cooler intake charge air temps increase timing directly are mistaken. The warmer the airfuel mixture is before ignition, the faster it will react/burn. Indirectly, however, a cooler intake charge can increase timing due to more oxygen fitting into a same volume of cylinder space and thus a higher oxygen content to increase rate of combustion.
 
24VCummns98 said:
so do you beleive that if your running a low setting like #3 (this is a second gen) on the smarty and only spraying 100 shot do you think its worth backing the timing down? how much does spray increase your timing? this is interesting never dealt with nitours before
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The best way to really figure out what is best is to strap to a dyno and tune the truck to make the powerband where you want it and get the most HP/TQ. Also a 100 shot really doesn't tell us much on a diesel, power gained is vastly different for each truck due to mods....... Most diesel guys looking for max HP miss out due to using too small of components. Running 5 stages of nitrous through tiny solenoids and lines doesn't really work well, the smallest resriction becomes the limit. Depending on the setup running -6 line from the bottle to the solenoid, and either two .125 or .157 solenoids will supply enough nitrous to burn all available fuel or window a block! Don't forget important details like a pressure gauge and heating blanket, the only way to have consistent power is by regulating bottle pressure. Also a good progressive controller is worth it's weight in gold.
 
I am running -6 an lines. 2 .125 solenoieds. 2 bottles, purge valves, heater blankets, guages and a boost reference controller from Nitrous express.

I guess back to my origional question though,, would I be safe to run that much nitrous while running level 9?
 
Why not run #9 with timing on #3 or 4? The way I see it, With those settings your pressure box and NO2 you timing would be #3 24*-27* and #4 a little less 21*-25*


Jetpilot is right, your best be would be a dyno...

But your ear is a pretty good tool for timing. try the different settings and listen, you will know if there is to much timing.



Eric is right on the timing settings for the smarty, its kinda confusing with #4 having more timing than #1 but less than #3, but thats how it works..

TNT Timing Degree's
#4=16* max
#3=18* max
#2=21* max
#1=12* max
 
what are the timing degrees for the smarty? at level one how much timing are you introducing? and so on for a (2nd gen) sorry dont mean to hijak interesting thread. what is too much timing? what is to little timing?
 
morkable said:
I am running -6 an lines. 2 .125 solenoieds. 2 bottles, purge valves, heater blankets, guages and a boost reference controller from Nitrous express.

I guess back to my origional question though,, would I be safe to run that much nitrous while running level 9?
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No, I have split two cylinder walls and destroyed two motors because of that much N20 and timing. Install the small jets and work your way up from there Kevin.


Malcolm
 
Timing

24V How low is the rpm on your shifts? I would have to guess pretty low to do that. Jeff
 
Stingpuller said:
I don't pull any out. I run it with the same timing I run without nitrous. Others may not agree but that is what works for me. I don't fill a diesel works like a gas motor with nitrous. In a diesel you need heat and diesel to burn, you can't lite the fire until the diesel is injected in. My thought's are why would you back the timing down(make more egt heat) when all you are doing is adding more air. Do the big turbo guys back there timing down? Just my thought's from a nitrous gas guy now playing with diesel's. Jeff
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Burn rate. With nitrous oxide in the mix the burn rate is greatly increased. Meaning the same ignition delay present fuel only, is now far less. The effective timing (start of combustion) will be sooner with the spray in the chamber. If you wanted to maintain similar cylinder pressure onset curves with spray vs fuel only, you would want to pull timing on the spray.
 
Stingpuller said:
I still don't by the faster burn. It still has to inject the fuel to start the burn. You have to make more cylinder pressure to make more power. It's hard enough to get the fuel to burn fast enough at high rpm. Just my thought's. I sure would like to hear from one of the Banks crew on this. Jeff
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You don't have to build more cylinder pressure to make more power. To make more power you can have the same cylinder pressure (torque output basically) but at a higher rpm.

Or.... take the same cylinder pressure peak, but increase the BMEP by getting the burn to keep on going as the piston falls from TDC. Good, dense intake air/nitrous oxide can make this happen.

And however much fuel is in the cylinder at ___ degrees BTDC, it will burn off faster if the cylinder has been enhanced with nitrous oxide.
 
Stingpuller said:
We agree to disagree then. Nobody can tell me why it would burn faster than a bigger turbo with cooler air. It's just air. Nitrous by itself will not burn. That's cool, I know you have played with it a time or two I would just like a answer and not just because. Thanks Jeff
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Why does it burn faster???

Chemistry. You are literally changing the chemical makeup of the cylinder environment. Don't think that determines burn rate?

Tell that to a guy running C16, vs a guy running pump gas...
 
I had made a thread before asking if you CR guys would be interested in a plug in module that put a screen in the cab displaying the live, actual engine timing and pulsewidth while you drove.

Seeing this thread still makes me think you guys are fighting blind without knowing your timing/pw. But only one person responded to my thread, so you guys don't care? Or is there something already out there you guys are using to verify your timing/pw?
 
Where's that dang V-Bulletin AutoMerge post feature, anyway? :hehe:





Eric & I talked about bringing a timing gauge to market last fall - would be a great tuning/carnage-avoidance aid... but there are some resolution-based monitoring practicalities involved that make it a challenging prospect.

I say go for it - if you build it, some will buy it! :Cheer:
 
Timing

Charles, c16 is harder to light which is why it's higher octane. I still don't by it that it burns faster. With a bigger bang yes, faster I just don't see it. I could be wrong have been many times before but nobody can show me how it burns faster. They just say it does. I learning like most with these diesel's we play with and have run a bunch of nos in these things. I'm not a beginner with this stuff. Nitrous in a gas motor works different from what i'm finding I was just curious if others have found the same thing or if they just do what others say because it's the way it is. Thanks for the replies Jeff
 
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