Truckers, lets see your rigs!

[jfaulkner]

Gotcha, yeah definitely a benefit there especially on slick surfaces vs pinion/tailshaft parking brakes.

Pretty strong cons for a class 8 truck...tare weight is one, maneuverability is another... Not to mention overhead of operating cost increase.. I've yet to see on paper a class 7/8 truck operate less than 1.00 mile which is better part of double what I do know... And rate doesn't change just because I have a bigger truck. So I lose income.

A lot of class 6 trucks are derated class 7/8 chassis.. 10-12k/21k f/r axles..and truck is capped at 26k.. or a 10/17k axle setup
Class 8 brakes cheaper than a 4 wheeler....reason they are cheaper.... Volume.

I've carved out a nice niche market with the company I'm with.. being able to carry 35' and up to 20k worth of cargo.. and I don't have to "fight" our big trucks for loads if you will.. plus I don't "look" heavy

On one hand..I like being over built for what I do... On the other hand being so over built that it drastically hurts your bottom line isnt smart. Even more so if/when freight slows down or if/when fuel cost go up to the extent you can't operate....

3 years ago I was paying upwards of $4.00-$4.50 gallon of diesel in the north east. That ~$2.00 difference Evan At 10mpg that's a chunk of change that just gets rolled through your account.. when compared to today's fuel price avg which I'm seeing floating $2.25 range.
Reduce your mpg and that change gets bigger fast..

Would a class 8 be nice for the 800-1200 mile runs i do absolutely... reality is I'd say 75% of my runs are less than 450 miles one way. Class 8 is just too big/heavy/slow

you look at LTL companies... UPS/FedEx/abf/r&L, their OTR trucks are class 8 and their around town p&d trucks are class 5/6/7 straight and single axle trucks usually.... I do more regional/p&d than OTR work.

Currently my trailer grosses out at 29k which you really see my dually start to get winded at that weight. Especially running hills.
A 5/6 truck with a ~400hp MD engine with somewhere between OTR and P&D gearing, it would be about right on target and easily handle upwards of a 40k trailer. Or at least seams to be.
Side note for those that don't know.. 90s C3500 HD style truck is one of these that I'd repower with a Dmax/Allison. this one I did 4 years ago..

If your getting 100k out of 19.5's you could get double out of 22.5's and they will buy them back when your done.

I would stay away from automatic transmissions. You mention gearing and with a manual gearing isn't nearly as big of a deal since you choose the gear you run. Rarely will a manual leave you stranded.

You know what your future is using a pickup for what your doing. Your posts on here about constant breakdowns is enough for me to never want to try it. You've stuck it out more than most would have and I don't know if I should congratulate you or have you get your head examined.

My uncle was all about light weight and has tried it all with 2 of our semis. (Luckily the rest were spared from the stupidity) Single tires, dead axles, small engines ect. They're both gone and have been replaced with what works. Being able to haul 1000# more doesn't mean crap when your behind a wrecker or your repair bills are more than the other trucks in the fleet. After 20+yrs he's finally coming around to where everyone else has been all along. Buy the truck to fit the job your doing.

Using the wrong tool for the job isn't a great idea, even if it is cheaper and lighter. Lol

 

[malibu795]

You know what your future is using a pickup for what your doing. Your posts on here about constant breakdowns is enough for me to never want to try it. You've stuck it out more than most would have and I don't know if I should congratulate you or have you get your head examined.

Only reason I'm looking what I'm doing, is because government thinks the elogs and related mentality of requirements is going to fix things.. it's not... and it most likely will get worse...
While I've had a lot of failures, I've yet to have one directly related to what I do, all in all, done pretty darn well this year.
Maintenance cost are roughly 25% of what there where last year at this time.. and I've already exceeded what I made last year..

My uncle was all about light weight and has tried it all with 2 of our semis. (Luckily the rest were spared from the stupidity) Single tires, dead axles, small engines ect. They're both gone and have been replaced with what works. Being able to haul 1000# more doesn't mean crap when your behind a wrecker or your repair bills are more than the other trucks in the fleet. After 20+yrs he's finally coming around to where everyone else has been all along. Buy the truck to fit the job your doing.

Make same argument for being too heavy.... I know hotshots that carry 3/8" and 1/2" chain...and equivalent binders....Idk why... 5/16 is plenty for what we (hotshots) haul. Most barely put 16k on deck much less 20k

Definitely agree to buying a truck to fit the need... Hence picking you guys brain(s) about the MD market, granted not many are running MD trucks as hotshots, or letting you pick apart my ideas/business plan(s) lol

There is definitely too light and too heavy for a said job both will increase overhead costs

 

[chevota84]

Idk man, I've really not had great success with working m/d stuff very hard. I still bet a single axle class 8 would consistently beat a medium duty truck at the same weight.

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[RockinRam96]

Idk man, I've really not had great success with working m/d stuff very hard. I still bet a single axle class 8 would consistently beat a medium duty truck at the same weight.

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This is exactly what I would do if I were going to hotshot. I've always wanted a W900a single axle to hotshot. Run a class 8 truck and you'll never have to fix anything. I've always thought guys overload 1 ton pickups running them as hotshots. IMHO, 25-30,000 lbs gvrw is to much for a 1 ton pickup.

I mean an 855, N-14, 3406 would be a million mile plus motor working it like that. You'll never get that out of your Duramax or 5.9, and they're more expensive up front.


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[zfaylor]

I wouldn't bank on getting close to 10 mpgs out of a medium. Remember, many of the medium duty engines are dam near pickup truck engines.

and remember, don't listen to the buddy or the guy at the truck stop on what you'll get if you buy a similar truck. I've heard truckers tell me their 14.0L Detroit gets 10 mpg with 40k on a van trailer more times than I care to. Divide whatever they say in half and you are probably close. same goes for how much horsepower they are pushing out of their engine.



I know class 8 is a huge jump but man medium duty really doesn't gain much. We have talked about this stuff before on here numerous times and I understand why you want to do what you are doing 100%. I would be considering building your own setup. I still think something medium duty that is C10 powered with an 8LL or a 4560 behind it would be dam near the best of both worlds.


edit: the C10 has really grown on me in the last 6 months since we got some high hp industrial C10s. BIG injectors (our injector guy claims they flow more than a 6nz injector), c12 turbo on the manifold, and a modest tune from the factory and they flat out run.

 

[malibu795]

This is exactly what I would do if I were going to hotshot. I've always wanted a W900a single axle to hotshot. Run a class 8 truck and you'll never have to fix anything. I've always thought guys overload 1 ton pickups running them as hotshots. IMHO, 25-30,000 lbs gvrw is to much for a 1 ton pickup.

I mean an 855, N-14, 3406 would be a million mile plus motor working it like that. You'll never get that out of your Duramax or 5.9, and they're more expensive up front.


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You can find a ISB in a 33,000lb truck from the factory....

Ztaylor

Hence why I'm skeptical of a 14/15L engine pulling 10 MPG.
The 8.3 allows me to use a lot of the 12V advancement.
And there's a bunch of them

 

[jfaulkner]

Only reason I'm looking what I'm doing, is because government thinks the elogs and related mentality of requirements is going to fix things.. it's not... and it most likely will get worse...

While I've had a lot of failures, I've yet to have one directly related to what I do, all in all, done pretty darn well this year.

Maintenance cost are roughly 25% of what there where last year at this time.. and I've already exceeded what I made last year..





Make same argument for being too heavy.... I know hotshots that carry 3/8" and 1/2" chain...and equivalent binders....Idk why... 5/16 is plenty for what we (hotshots) haul. Most barely put 16k on deck much less 20k



Definitely agree to buying a truck to fit the need... Hence picking you guys brain(s) about the MD market, granted not many are running MD trucks as hotshots, or letting you pick apart my ideas/business plan(s) lol



There is definitely too light and too heavy for a said job both will increase overhead costs

Well that was my point with my uncle. Was tickled chitless when he could save 100# but never showed me how if he pulled on the scale at 79,900 he was going to go back and add 100# more. Same with you, the weight you save with a slightly lighter truck working harder will gain you nothing when your way under gross. Do you actually get weighed in/out at places you load much?

I wouldn't bank on getting close to 10 mpgs out of a medium. Remember, many of the medium duty engines are dam near pickup truck engines.



and remember, don't listen to the buddy or the guy at the truck stop on what you'll get if you buy a similar truck. I've heard truckers tell me their 14.0L Detroit gets 10 mpg with 40k on a van trailer more times than I care to. Divide whatever they say in half and you are probably close. same goes for how much horsepower they are pushing out of their engine.







I know class 8 is a huge jump but man medium duty really doesn't gain much. We have talked about this stuff before on here numerous times and I understand why you want to do what you are doing 100%. I would be considering building your own setup. I still think something medium duty that is C10 powered with an 8LL or a 4560 behind it would be dam near the best of both worlds.





edit: the C10 has really grown on me in the last 6 months since we got some high hp industrial C10s. BIG injectors (our injector guy claims they flow more than a 6nz injector), c12 turbo on the manifold, and a modest tune from the factory and they flat out run.

I'm not feeling your C10 love. It's the same block/head as C12 so there isn't any weight savings. And being more rare than a C12 parts are not going to be any cheaper.

 

[RockinRam96]

I wouldn't bank on getting close to 10 mpgs out of a medium. Remember, many of the medium duty engines are dam near pickup truck engines.

and remember, don't listen to the buddy or the guy at the truck stop on what you'll get if you buy a similar truck. I've heard truckers tell me their 14.0L Detroit gets 10 mpg with 40k on a van trailer more times than I care to. Divide whatever they say in half and you are probably close. same goes for how much horsepower they are pushing out of their engine.



I know class 8 is a huge jump but man medium duty really doesn't gain much. We have talked about this stuff before on here numerous times and I understand why you want to do what you are doing 100%. I would be considering building your own setup. I still think something medium duty that is C10 powered with an 8LL or a 4560 behind it would be dam near the best of both worlds.


edit: the C10 has really grown on me in the last 6 months since we got some high hp industrial C10s. BIG injectors (our injector guy claims they flow more than a 6nz injector), c12 turbo on the manifold, and a modest tune from the factory and they flat out run.

Then you don't know much about class 8 trucks. Fuel economy can be had with horse power.

My dad runs a 3406, hauls a lowboy pulling heavy equipment, runs local so doesn't put many miles on his truck, spends much more idle time than running time, on a tandem tractor on 24.5s, geared low. He consistently gets mid-7s for fuel mileage with a mechanical engine.

With a single axle, on 22.5 or 22.5 low pros, geared higher with any road ranger, and driven sensibly, I wouldn't be surprised to see at least 10 mpg hauling 25,000 to 30,000 lb gvrw. Let me see you do that in you're Duramax, Powerstroke or 6.7 in a 1-ton or medium size truck so that.

My dad pulls a little bumper pull single axle horse trailer with his 2003 club cab, long box dodge 5.9 automatic. We are lucky to get 13 mpg out of it on the highway cruising at 60 mph.

You can find a ISB in a 33,000lb truck from the factory....

Ztaylor

Hence why I'm skeptical of a 14/15L engine pulling 10 MPG.
The 8.3 allows me to use a lot of the 12V advancement.
And there's a bunch of them

Maybe but how would you be working that engine? I'd rather be easy on an engine and have it live longer than be asking it to give me all it has and have it live half the life.

Now you are talking a class 8 engine with a C12 or C13.... Maybe a better option than in a 14 or 15L engine. But I have a fried that has a Pete 377 day cab with a C12 and another friend with a Freightliner Classic Condo C15, both hauling block. Both get the same fuel mileage...

As someone has said on here before, "Why buy a pony to do a horses job."

 

[Ram12vcummins]

I bet you any money if you took a class 8 with a 12l series 60 an singled it out on the back end, you'd see just as good mileage empty as yours and prob better loaded.

 

[malibu795]

Well that was my point with my uncle. Was tickled chitless when he could save 100# but never showed me how if he pulled on the scale at 79,900 he was going to go back and add 100# more. Same with you, the weight you save with a slightly lighter truck working harder will gain you nothing when your way under gross. Do you actually get weighed in/out at places you load much?

While 1-200lbs isn't a lot on a 80k truck is respectively bigger on a 26-36k truck. I've yet to replace something with a lighter variant and reduce capacity..

Then you don't know much about class 8 trucks. Fuel economy can be had with horse power.

I Apply same principle to hotshot.. at ~400hp I get better mpg than a stock hp truck..

My dad runs a 3406, hauls a lowboy pulling heavy equipment, runs local so doesn't put many miles on his truck, spends much more idle time than running time, on a tandem tractor on 24.5s, geared low. He consistently gets mid-7s for fuel mileage with a mechanical engine.

With a single axle, on 22.5 or 22.5 low pros, geared higher with any road ranger, and driven sensibly, I wouldn't be surprised to see at least 10 mpg hauling 25,000 to 30,000 lb gvrw. Let me see you do that in you're Duramax, Powerstroke or 6.7 in a 1-ton or medium size truck so that.

My dad pulls a little bumper pull single axle horse trailer with his 2003 club cab, long box dodge 5.9 automatic. We are lucky to get 13 mpg out of it on the highway cruising at 60 mph.

Quarter 2/3/4 (spring summer fall) I usually avg 10.5 mpg Ifta report... Winter is usually high 8 to low 9mpg.. need to screen shot my Ifta? I'm usually running 68-70
Terrain says slot about mpg... The guys out in the plans pull 11mpg constantly..I've got a mixed of mountains and plans..

Maybe but how would you be working that engine? I'd rather be easy on an engine and have it live longer than be asking it to give me all it has and have it live half the life.

As someone has said on here before, "Why buy a pony to do a horses job."

No different than Current setup..

Why buy a horse to do a pony's job?

 

[jfaulkner]

You can find a ISB in a 33,000lb truck from the factory....

Ztaylor

Hence why I'm skeptical of a 14/15L engine pulling 10 MPG.
The 8.3 allows me to use a lot of the 12V advancement.
And there's a bunch of them

I believe it's possible. At the weights you haul it's basically bobtail for a big truck. Talked to a Canadian with a 379 with a C12. Pulling a 4 axle Conestoga he gets 13mpg empty. Personally I'm not a fuel mileage type of guy. I would rather have a reliable 5mpg 800hp truck that looks good and I enjoy driving, vs a high fuel mileage truck I dislike. If I enjoy my job it's more satisfying than a little more $ I just get to pay taxes on.

I'm not sold on the old mechanical engines either. Guys claim they get 500mpg but everyone I know with them they don't do as good as the newer stuff. My dad gets 6.5mpg with a '12 and a friend barely breaks 5 with a 3406B. My '11 Ford buries the mileage my older dodge ever got.

 

[jfaulkner]

Quarter 2/3/4 (spring summer fall) I usually avg 10.5 mpg Ifta report... Winter is usually high 8 to low 9mpg.. need to screen shot my Ifta? I'm usually running 68-70
Terrain says slot about mpg... The guys out in the plans pull 11mpg constantly..I've got a mixed of mountains and plans..

I'm not calling you a liar but I wouldn't quote IFTA much. Anyone that fills those out knows how easy they are to make up amazing numbers.

Why buy a horse to do a pony's job?

Because they're both worthless animals and cost about the same new but the horse won't have it's tongue hanging out on every hill. And the horse has the same size saddle as most of the other hay burners in the pasture and doesn't need to be custom made. :hehe:

 

[SmokinCAT]

I believe it's possible. At the weights you haul it's basically bobtail for a big truck. Talked to a Canadian with a 379 with a C12. Pulling a 4 axle Conestoga he gets 13mpg empty. Personally I'm not a fuel mileage type of guy. I would rather have a reliable 5mpg 800hp truck that looks good and I enjoy driving, vs a high fuel mileage truck I dislike. If I enjoy my job it's more satisfying than a little more $ I just get to pay taxes on.

I'm not sold on the old mechanical engines either. Guys claim they get 500mpg but everyone I know with them they don't do as good as the newer stuff. My dad gets 6.5mpg with a '12 and a friend barely breaks 5 with a 3406B. My '11 Ford buries the mileage my older dodge ever got.

Guy came from Oklahoma to York PA bobtail in w900A with 3408 6x4 transmissions and 3.55 and his hand calculated for bobtail was right at 10mpg or a hair under, been a while since I read the post.

 

[zfaylor]

Well that was my point with my uncle. Was tickled chitless when he could save 100# but never showed me how if he pulled on the scale at 79,900 he was going to go back and add 100# more. Same with you, the weight you save with a slightly lighter truck working harder will gain you nothing when your way under gross. Do you actually get weighed in/out at places you load much?




I'm not feeling your C10 love. It's the same block/head as C12 so there isn't any weight savings. And being more rare than a C12 parts are not going to be any cheaper.

In a medium duty I like it. I see what you are saying but 12 liters really aren't needed in medium duty and which parts would you honestly be replacing on a C10 in a medium duty truck that can't be taken from a C12? If you need a cylinder pack or a turbocharger 9/10 times the CAT dealer you are dealing with only has filters and valve cover gaskets in stock anyways.

Then you don't know much about class 8 trucks. Fuel economy can be had with horse power.

My dad runs a 3406, hauls a lowboy pulling heavy equipment, runs local so doesn't put many miles on his truck, spends much more idle time than running time, on a tandem tractor on 24.5s, geared low. He consistently gets mid-7s for fuel mileage with a mechanical engine.

With a single axle, on 22.5 or 22.5 low pros, geared higher with any road ranger, and driven sensibly, I wouldn't be surprised to see at least 10 mpg hauling 25,000 to 30,000 lb gvrw. Let me see you do that in you're Duramax, Powerstroke or 6.7 in a 1-ton or medium size truck so that.

My dad pulls a little bumper pull single axle horse trailer with his 2003 club cab, long box dodge 5.9 automatic. We are lucky to get 13 mpg out of it on the highway cruising at 60 mph.




Maybe but how would you be working that engine? I'd rather be easy on an engine and have it live longer than be asking it to give me all it has and have it live half the life.

Now you are talking a class 8 engine with a C12 or C13.... Maybe a better option than in a 14 or 15L engine. But I have a fried that has a Pete 377 day cab with a C12 and another friend with a Freightliner Classic Condo C15, both hauling block. Both get the same fuel mileage...

As someone has said on here before, "Why buy a pony to do a horses job."

All I do is work on class 8 trucks and sell parts for them. Yes, economy CAN come with horsepower but there is a wall that you hit. If you get 4.5 with 425 and bump it up to 500 and get closer to 6 it doesn't mean you can pull 8 out of a 625. I am sorry but you are not pulling 10mpg+ out of a 14L engine consistently with a load. We do tuning and everytime a detroit guy comes in its "my buddy has a diesel freak tune and pulls at least 8mpgs blah blah blah". 7.5 is a believable number. There is a massive difference between 7.5 and 10. Hell theres a big difference between 7.5 and 8.

As far as C12 vs C15 hauling block we are back to class 8. The conversation at hand involves a medium duty truck. Yes a 12 liter is way underpowered for a class 8. Hints recommending repowering a medium duty one with a 10-12 liter over the 6-8 liter engines they came with. ie. a more powerful engine working less without going overboard.

He wants medium duty and I have had this conversation with him on here before. We all know class 8 would be the best truck but it isn't the best option for him overall.

 

[malibu795]

Well more donkey/mule job vs pony/horse

 

[zfaylor]

Yeah im just throwing my opinion out there man. I don't claim to be an expert by any means. You will get 1000 different opinions on this topic and probably none of them are right because the right answer is whatever YOU want. It doesn't matter if you aren't happy in the end.

 

[malibu795]

Yeah im just throwing my opinion out there man. I don't claim to be an expert by any means. You will get 1000 different opinions on this topic and probably none of them are right because the right answer is whatever YOU want. It doesn't matter if you aren't happy in the end.

Opinions allow me to see a different part of the Apple imo.. and allows me to make a more informed choice..

As for Ifta.. I'm sitting on a avg $0.33 a mile tax credit this year.. I've already out down 82,000 miles since 1/1/16.. and we got 13-14 weeks left of the year...
Feel free to do that math on 110-120k miles.. I think you'll see/understand my MPG concern

 

[lorendiesel5.9]

Outside Loren's friend that custom ordered a class 8 truck for efficiency and gets 10mpg in single axle setup.

One of my friends: 2014 Cascadia's evolution DD13/DT12 auto, single axle with super singles, Freightliner's Run Smart integrated anti idle tech, full emissions DEF/DPF, all time since new over 10mpg

Friend number two: 2012 Pete 384 Paccar MX 13/13spd tandem drive, 3.36 rears, bought used with 320k tuned/deleted by 325k, running Full Throttle manifold w/S475, super singles, avg 50k gross. Diesel fired bunk heater, no other anti idle devices. Since the super singles he has been consistently over 9mpg running 70mph, 9.6 to 9.9 running 68 mph or lower

I've told Adam this same thing over and over, you can lead a pony to the water trough but if he's not tall enough to drink with the big horses, he's going to go away thirsty.

 

[malibu795]

Forgot your Volvo loren

 

[lorendiesel5.9]

I never aimed for fuel mileage with that setup but yes driving it like I stole it still netted me low 8s.