Tune or pump it up then tune?

if you went 118 mph in the 1/4 with that truck. You are making ALOT of horsepower......
 
X2 That girl needs to go on a diet to have a good et with the ve pump. If 118 is right that thing is making ALOT of power, sounds fishy.
 
Just quick random thoughts...

Do you think it's time to ditch the 2nd gen pump and go with a Raptor 150, or similar? I'd eliminate the bouncing fuel pressure and try to keep a solid 15 psi.

With low fuel economy, lots of smoke, large injectors, and high boost, I think you need to jump a tooth on timing. I think you'd also benefit alot from a timing spacer (like M&Hs) to extend the range of dynamic timing as you push past 3,000 rpm.

Running 65 psi boost and 3600 rpm, you should change out the intake and exhaust springs.

Great looking truck. I'd like to see a few current pics.

--Eric
 
Ill post current pics once I snap some new pics.

To all the people who think I am claiming 118mph settle down that was just the number I thought it was. I don't have a et slip.

Was going to upgrade fuel pumps when the p pump goes on.
Still doing some research on the lift pumps.

Ill jump a tooth when I do the swap.
Should I go two teeth then back it off?
One tooth is 10* is it not?
So jump two the retard it back a bit to 17-18*

Will the s475.96/1.32 handle a 215pump and say..... 5x14's
5.9 cummins fan do you drive your truck on the road ?



What kind of mileage would I expect and hp #?

Sorry for all the questions, search function usually ends up in hours of reading:aiwebs_013::aiwebs_013:
 
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I don't see a problem getting 600 out of those twins with a tweaked 180 or 215 and 5x14s. I drive it during to summer when the roads are good and dry, or when I want to scare the girlfriend on a Friday night. Waiting on a new driveshaft and chain for the 271 before I can get it back on the road. Its not the super street friendly when you lean on the skinny pedal, but controllable. I would get an adjustable pump now to try out, if you still aren't satisfied with a skipped tooth and good lift pump it sounds like you are pretty dead set on swapping a p pump already.
 
5.9 Cummins Fan said:
I don't see a problem getting 600 out of those twins with a tweaked 180 or 215 and 5x14s. I drive it during to summer when the roads are good and dry, or when I want to scare the girlfriend on a Friday night. Waiting on a new driveshaft and chain for the 271 before I can get it back on the road. Its not the super street friendly when you lean on the skinny pedal, but controllable. I would get an adjustable pump now to try out, if you still aren't satisfied with a skipped tooth and good lift pump it sounds like you are pretty dead set on swapping a p pump already.
Click to expand...

Well I have a 215 pump ad all the stuff to swap over.

But I have considered selling it.
As of now the fuel mileage or lack of is NOT justified with performance.
Now I understand some tuning is needed but I figure its wasted time if I plan to swap.

The reason for the thread was to establish how far off my tuning is and how realistic my expectations were .
When the twins and injectors where installed the first test drive left me saying." WTF.... That's it"
Having a rough riding poor mileage truck that barely out performs a stock duramax has left a bad taste in my mouth.

Now being this far "into" this truck I either have to keep going or move on.
Obviously a p pump will make the performance go up.

...... But can I get a drive able truck with 15+mpg and reliable WITH the performance to out pull and race a moderately tuned new one.
 
Drop an injector size or 2 and get a tighter exhaust housing on that primary.
 
BC847 said:
That thing with the injectors getting air-bound, Bosch calls it "Combustion-gas Blow Back". They made a DV to correct that, but you can eliminate the issue with learning to roll off the throttle instead of side-stepping it when coming off WOT.
Click to expand...

Combustion blow-back is common no matter the injection type, if air entrapment caused the stalling issues, then all injection systems would suffer from it, not just distributor pumps.

The delivery valve/holder you mentioned is known as return flow restriction, this was designed to dampen the pressure waves returning to the pumping element from the opening/closing of the valve or nozzle.

I ran into issues a few years back with both VE and VP44 pumps stalling after lifting abruptly, installed A1000's on all three, and it hasn't happened again in 6yrs.
 
Smokem said:
Combustion blow-back is common no matter the injection type, if air entrapment caused the stalling issues, then all injection systems would suffer from it, not just distributor pumps.

The delivery valve/holder you mentioned is known as return flow restriction, this was designed to dampen the pressure waves returning to the pumping element from the opening/closing of the valve or nozzle.

I ran into issues a few years back with both VE and VP44 pumps stalling after lifting abruptly, installed A1000's on all three, and it hasn't happened again in 6yrs.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. Since I already have a regulator I thought A1000 and build my own filtration setup.

What's your thought of running it in series with a factory lift pump?

I am sure this topis has been covered already ....:blahblah1:
 
Smokem said:
Are you aware of the price for a T6 1.10AR housing for the 88/96mm turbine wheel?



I always used them as a stand-alone.
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exactly. i have a T6 1.1 and it was spendy. a box 475 can be had for around 650 new. a T6 475 with a 1.1 88/96 wheel will run you near 1200 new. thats a BIG heavy truck to be running 118mph with a VE pump. my truck was a Vp and just put a benched 215 pump on it and at 527cc of fuel, with my tunned afc, i can drive NO PROBLEM with zero smoke. miliage is at 18.7 if i drive normal and it makes over 600hp with the pump set near 300cc of fuel.
 
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Inline6power thanks , good to know.


Ill p pump it. I've decided. At least of it still gets bad mileage it will make power lol




I had a new s476/83-1.1 a forced hybrid.
Brand new worked great pulled better and cleaned the smoke up better.
But it blew up after 100km:evil

Had a couple friends who had issues as well.
And my budget was shrinking so on went a box s475 I bought of cummins forum
..... Which turned out to have puked oil seals:evil


The turbos on my truck were not first choices ..... I just ran out of money lol.
 
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If fuel economy is one of your goals, I'm not so sure I'd jump the gun to P-Pump. If you're to put a better lift pump and valve springs on it anyway, why not do that now and jump a tooth in the process? You're going to lose dynamic timing with the P7100.

If power is the goal, then nevermind.
 
ENafziger said:
If fuel economy is one of your goals, I'm not so sure I'd jump the gun to P-Pump. If you're to put a better lift pump and valve springs on it anyway, why not do that now and jump a tooth in the process? You're going to lose dynamic timing with the P7100.

If power is the goal, then nevermind.
Click to expand...

its hard to make 600hp daily driven ve that still gets decent miliage. i mean unless your jq that makes 400hp dailey driven and then spray another 500hp on top of that. its just not going to happen with a VE. no way to make 600hp, that gets somewhat decent mpg AND be able to tow with. it wont happen no matter what. now 400hp with a ve that tows and gets 18mpg is no problem.
 
inline6power said:
its hard to make 600hp daily driven ve that still gets decent miliage. i mean unless your jq that makes 400hp dailey driven and then spray another 500hp on top of that.
Click to expand...

Hey, I make 487, don't cut me short! :hehe::hehe: Not going to disagree with the nitrous part :D

Although I would like to point out that KTA daily drove his for a while at 650rwhp.
 
inline6power said:
its hard to make 600hp daily driven ve that still gets decent miliage. i mean unless your jq that makes 400hp dailey driven and then spray another 500hp on top of that. its just not going to happen with a VE. no way to make 600hp, that gets somewhat decent mpg AND be able to tow with. it wont happen no matter what. now 400hp with a ve that tows and gets 18mpg is no problem.
Click to expand...

Now a 400 hp 18 mpg VE that tows would make me happy!!

No way mine make 400 hp ...... Prob like 375
Gets 11-12 mpg and smokes like a train .

I am doing something way wrong hahahahha.

Anyone want to road trip to my house and tune my truck?
 
I like Canada! Only been there for half a day. Your trying to tow, get good mpg, and make 400hp. That's p pump territory easy. But a ve can do it to. Your injectors are a bit large for 400, but your turbo setup is spot on. There are a few running a s475 as there bottom charger. I believe BC847 made just north 400 with 5x14, and I'm sure he could probably leave his timing where it was for hp & towing. You may need to run a smaller injector. I know it's expensive but it may make you a bit happier with your truck.
 
I'm going to generalize here to try and explain why big injectors don't always make big power with smaller pumping elements ie; stock injection pumps.

Let's start with some baseline figures to work with, say 400cc's with 20° static timing and a max speed of 3500RPM. Both the timing and max speed show that this setup will be geared toward making power early in the power band, so why would a large injector not be ideal? Let's assume the injection duration a full throttle requires 35° of crank rotation to inject the 400cc's of fuel, this means you are injecting fuel for 15° after TDC, which creates excess smoke with no additional power. With a conservative sized injector this quantity will be reduced because of overall less flow, and also being easier to control smoke output early in the power band. So in a application such as this, it would be much more ideal to use a conservative hone size, with a wider cone angle, and turbocharger(s) that will operate at both the power goal and RPM range.

Increasing injection rate is ideal to make power with diesel fuel, but this is often a term used but not described, so let's use the same example as before; 400cc's with 20° static timing and a max speed of 3500RPM. With a larger pumping element let's assume the injection duration at full throttle now requires 20° of crank rotation to inject the 400cc's of fuel, this means you are no longer injecting fuel after TDC and will create a much more complete combustion process. This is often why you hear larger injection pumps described as making more power, with less smoke, and requiring less timing to do so.
 
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my chevy cummins with a ve setup is right at 400 and gets 18.4 hand calculated. its got a 57mm over 66mm. its bd tow twins. not ideal for high hp but perfect for 400. injectors are ddp 4s which came with the truck, not my first choice. denny pin and timing is maxed without skipping a tooth. a little tunning on the pump and its pretty easy to drive with no smoke yet anything taking off over 1/8 will leave a small cloud due to the injectors. truck is also a 5 speed.
 
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