Will they be next to be shut down...

RD TRCTR said:
You're absolutely right...

The problem is... Many things.

1. Diesels went from minimal emissions/ opacity tests to new technology execution over a short period of time. When the emissions technologies were first applied, a chit ton of problems occurred. The gas world has about 40 years more of experience over the diesel world.

2. The problem is availability and cost. It is easy to delete a truck. If the owner wants to stay emissions intact, the cost of the replacement parts is outlandish and where many get in a bind. $5k for a new SCR and DPF is a little over twice the delete cost.

3. The OEM's and dealerships have done the diesel truck crowd no favors. Most dealerships don't have Cummins/ Duramax/ Scorpion specific mechanics. So, when an issue occurs, a mechanic with little knowledge or training is left with trying to fix the issue by throwing parts at it.


The best way for the EPA to curb the issue that is occurring is to lean on the OEM's to make the emissions hardware cheaper for replacement and to train up their mechanics to better handle diesel emissions work.
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THIS, its honestly impressive how much better this stuff has gotten already since it was first mandated, reliability has come a long way. Its also been way too easy to delete stuff, I've heard of stealerships even sending people off to get it done "because basically we can't fix it without a second mortgage on your house." I seriously wonder if the EPA could have done everyone a favor and enforced it strictly off the bat, maybe it would have even prevented the diesel ricer craze. :nail:
 
From my experience here, the technology of the DPF and EGR systems have come a long way. DEF systems seem to be lagging behind a little in terms of technology/reliabilty.

Best case scenario for these trucks is to stay on the interstate. We had a customer in for some maintenance a couple months ago. Hotshot hauler with a 2018 RAM. He had 218,000 miles and not one single emissions related problems to date (except for the fact that he spent $15,000 in DEF fluid alone in one year), but the trucks stays loaded and on the highway. Most of the problems we see are from farmers who have a lot of idle time and short trips.
 
BluegrassDiesel said:
From my experience here, the technology of the DPF and EGR systems have come a long way. DEF systems seem to be lagging behind a little in terms of technology/reliabilty.

Best case scenario for these trucks is to stay on the interstate. We had a customer in for some maintenance a couple months ago. Hotshot hauler with a 2018 RAM. He had 218,000 miles and not one single emissions related problems to date (except for the fact that he spent $15,000 in DEF fluid alone in one year), but the trucks stays loaded and on the highway. Most of the problems we see are from farmers who have a lot of idle time and short trips.
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Met an insurance adjuster with 260k on his 18 and same desl no issues except blue.
 
15k in def is crazy. That's probabaly enough to get some guys to delete right there.
 
There's another one coming down the pipeshoot... unfortunate times for some guys who just like making power and going fast.
 
We usually trade or towing pickups off at 100k. Never a problem with the emissions. The hired man had some messages pop up but I think our def was getting a bit old. Got some fresh stuff and it went away.

The new 3/4 gas stuff has gotten pretty good now. For a farm pickup towing occasionally around town they are up to the job
 
The excuse that it is too expensive to fix an emissions truck only goes so far. Most of the places refuse to learn diagnostics. That is the #1 issue. Instead of diagnosing the truck they throw all new chit on and blame the EPA for the bill. The number of times guys have replaced VGT turbos on ISX engines mistakenly due to a failed back pressure sensors is sickening. Turbo is $4500+ for a CM2250 at a dealer. Backpressure sensor is $30 and takes 5 minutes to change and 5 minutes on a laptop looking at the sensor values to see it is the problem.
 
zfaylor said:
The excuse that it is too expensive to fix an emissions truck only goes so far. Most of the places refuse to learn diagnostics. That is the #1 issue. Instead of diagnosing the truck they throw all new chit on and blame the EPA for the bill. The number of times guys have replaced VGT turbos on ISX engines mistakenly due to a failed back pressure sensors is sickening. Turbo is $4500+ for a CM2250 at a dealer. Backpressure sensor is $30 and takes 5 minutes to change and 5 minutes on a laptop looking at the sensor values to see it is the problem.
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Yep- mechanics don't diagnose crap any more- they send a list of codes up the pipe to find out what parts to replace....Strings class 8 repairs out for days on end.
 
I would say this matter to kory now more than it ever did cause he has quite a bit of money wraped up in that car
 
Empty_Pockets said:
I would say this matter to kory now more than it ever did cause he has quite a bit of money wraped up in that car
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With "non compliant" on the front of it.

Theres poking a bear, then theres charging at it with a dull stick. Hes doing the latter...

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 
He doesnt even have a dull stick!
I hate to be the guy to tell him but he doesnt have more money than the feds lol
 
Not to mention right now all we can hope for is retaining the motorsports side of things. Kiss the on road deletes goodbye. That is only a matter of time but the motorsports side is all we have. Let's go ahead and phuck that all away too.
 
Timbeaux3hirty8ight said:
Yep- mechanics don't diagnose crap any more- they send a list of codes up the pipe to find out what parts to replace....Strings class 8 repairs out for days on end.
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Used to be a time when people just said "Give me the tools to fix it and I will."
Now it's "I ain't got the brains to run the tool, so I can't fix it."

It really comes down to fishing and being smart enough to learn how it's done, nevermind being ABLE to be taught how.
Yes, we really are down to people being un-teachable. :bang

Mark.
 
BluegrassDiesel said:
...(except for the fact that he spent $15,000 in DEF fluid alone in one year),...
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I'm calling BS on that... I barely sell $15K worth of DEF in a year to all of my customers, and tractors can burn 40 gallons every day you're working them hard.

If he's spending that on DEF, he needs to change his buying method...at the $2.75 a gallon you pay at the pump for it, that 5,555 gal of DEF in a year...Consumed at the rate of approximately 8% per gal of fuel, that's 46,000 Gal of fuel...in one year, through a pickup truck.


I have customers that bought that much DEF in a year before, but they were farming 60K acres, with 12 4WD tractors that would burn about 30ish gal of DEF per day...


Bottom line, DEF and emission in general aren't near the problem it used to be. The technology has gotten better, and a lot more reliable. We have been DEF on our machines since 2008, across the board on every machine since 2011. If every manufacturer would have adopted it early like that, the problems would have been resolved even earlier. Tech's would be more experienced, and their diagnostics would be better as well.

Next, you're gonna tell me that when you put DEF in the fuel tank, it costs $30K to repair the fuel system...:umno:

Chris
 
We have over 500 school buses and other diesel vehicles (pickups, Sprinters, box trucks, etc) that use DEF in our fleet.

Last fiscal year we bought $28K worth of DEF, 17+K gallons, and totaled 13 MILLION miles.

Mid point this fiscal year looks to be on par to be the same. So far $13K worth, 8.2K gallons, and total 6.5 million miles.

At the $2.75 pump price, his $15K/218K miles works out to $0.0688/mile.

At pump price, ours is $48K/13M last year and $22.5K/6.5M so far this year. Works out to an average of $0.0036/mile.

Something definitely doesn't sound right...
 
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