Udc results: Dyno/fuel mileage/daily driving/racing

wow, thought most knew about this one. two day dyno event/ competition, hosted by a shop and run by guys that know how to get you on and off the dyno wihout wasting time. Lots of people, all kinds of trucks, just try to bring a bit of food to add to the table as they are not set to feed each and every one of us. If you notice a crockpot of blame the dog chili, I warn you in advance, it does not last long, but has lasting effects!
 
No worries Randy I didn't know about it either. Hell the closest event that ever comes up even close to my area, other than the ones I host, is probably Nationals in Ennis. Even that is over 7 hours away.
 
Thanks Mike,

That is seven plus hours drive for me so I'm out.. I sounds to be a good event though..

Posted Using a NEXUS 7 - 2005 - HE351/A5K - ARP - Arson lll - 70HP Nozzles - Smarty UDC Custom Tuned
 
cheap hotels just around the corner with bar right next door, for many it is a two day event.
 
mikmaze said:
cheap hotels just around the corner with bar right next door, for many it is a two day event.
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If I was to attend I would pull the fifth wheel, do you know if they would allow over night camping?
 
only thing you can do is call the shop that runs the event, ask them if they would let ya, if not, ask if anyplace nearby to park. there is a lot of room there at the shop.

Where..Dave Guy Racing
901 Range End Road
Dillsburg,PA 17019
(717)-502-0880

.
 
I have seen both EFI and UDC on a built truck and can honestly say the data logging with EFI is a HUGE help and removes the throwing darts in the dark tuning that comes with UDC.

As of this writing on my truck EFI has made more power and we still are not even in the ballpark with what the truck wants.We have been time strapped for more tuning and will get more chances soon as with the last couple storms in the NE work has kept me hopping and way to busy for play time with the truck.

I am at a loss how anyone can remote tune a UDC truck without having the truck there or a way to datalog it to see what it needs or wants.UDC is a great tool and option for the 03-05 owners but two things it is not,1-its not easy to create a tune that works the first time for your truck-you will get close but it will need fine tuning to make it exactly what you want,2-Unless your running a aftermarket data logging system to ease the tuning time or cut down on the dynojet strap time you will need to make time,quiet time,to sit down and go over what you tried and decide what did or didn't work.Accurate logs of all run parameters are needed to ensure you do not keep making the same changes that get you nowhere.

IMO buying a UDC tune from someone for your truck WITHOUT taking the truck to them to be tuned is a waste of time and your money.Your ending up with nothing more than another version of a canned tune that is not built for your truck alone and your hard parts.If thats the route you want then you need to stick with the SSR or S06/TNT-R and tune from there and your wallet will be a ton happier.

To Answer the camping question....
We have had many tow their campers in for our weekend shows.Keep in mind that if the weather is bad around the time you will need to stay off the grassy hill and park the camper at the top on the paved/stoned area.We have parked them at the back of the shop also next to the car trailers there if you need a power hook up.All you need to do is check with the gang and they will fix you up and give you instructions ...........Andy

P.S.-Mike....Dangerous Placards will be brought along with me for your pot of Chili.....LOL!
 
The big difference with UDC and EFI is that UDC uses an established base tune, so the parameters in which we can set are already enabled. UDC is not throwing darts in the same aspect that it can be with EFI, since UDC is not using a stock tune as the starter tune.

Data logging would be great, but the premise behind UDC is if we set a value the ECM should use that value and it's not the UDC tuners ability to change that value. Data logging doesn't tell you what is safe, or effective, it just tells you if you set the limiters to match your tables. If we don't have to worry about the limiters you can do a lot of tuning without data logging. Either way the driver has to know at what rpm/load he isn't happy, data logging doesn't pick up the likes and dislikes of the driver so there is always going to be some input needed.

Data logging would help with trouble rpms/loads, but if the end user has one of several gauges you can work off of those numbers in combination with the tach to determine where in the map the tune needs tweaking. Data logging does make this easier, but it is certainly not a requirement for tuning if you know the correlation of all the maps.

Even with data logging you have the same changes of getting the first tune right with UDC as EFI, because the first tune is always just a guess of what will work the the motor/mods/use.

I am by no means saying I don't want to see data logging with UDC (quite the opposite actually), I am just pointing out that once you get used to tuning without it that it's not as big of a deal as many people make it out to be. Marco has set us up with limits to match the base tune, and that's where EFI and UDC differ.
 
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Hammer said:
To Answer the camping question....
We have had many tow their campers in for our weekend shows.Keep in mind that if the weather is bad around the time you will need to stay off the grassy hill and park the camper at the top on the paved/stoned area.We have parked them at the back of the shop also next to the car trailers there if you need a power hook up.All you need to do is check with the gang and they will fix you up and give you instructions ...........Andy

P.S.-Mike....Dangerous Placards will be brought along with me for your pot of Chili.....LOL!
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Thanks Andy for the camping info and the chili warning..
 
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AH64ID said:
The big difference with UDC and EFI is that UDC uses an established base tune, so the parameters in which we can set are already enabled. UDC is not throwing darts in the same aspect that it can be with EFI, since UDC is not using a stock tune as the starter tune.

Data logging would be great, but the premise behind UDC is if we set a value the ECM should use that value and it's not the UDC tuners ability to change that value. Data logging doesn't tell you what is safe, or effective, it just tells you if you set the limiters to match your tables. If we don't have to worry about the limiters you can do a lot of tuning without data logging. Either way the driver has to know at what rpm/load he isn't happy, data logging doesn't pick up the likes and dislikes of the driver so there is always going to be some input needed.

Data logging would help with trouble rpms/loads, but if the end user has one of several gauges you can work off of those numbers in combination with the tach to determine where in the map the tune needs tweaking. Data logging does make this easier, but it is certainly not a requirement for tuning if you know the correlation of all the maps.

Even with data logging you have the same changes of getting the first tune right with UDC as EFI, because the first tune is always just a guess of what will work the the motor/mods/use.

I am by no means saying I don't want to see data logging with UDC (quite the opposite actually), I am just pointing out that once you get used to tuning without it that it's not as big of a deal as many people make it out to be. Marco has set us up with limits to match the base tune, and that's where EFI and UDC differ.
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Thanks John, you saved me from having to type up another long message.

Hammer, thank you for sharing your results from your personal experience with UDC and EFI.
 
Hansel and Gretel used breadcrumbs to mark their trail, I add whole kernel corn.
 
The big difference with UDC and EFI is that UDC uses an established base tune, so the parameters in which we can set are already enabled. UDC is not throwing darts in the same aspect that it can be with EFI, since UDC is not using a stock tune as the starter tune.
Click to expand...

How are you throwing darts with EFI when the truck is telling you what it is doing and you have real world data to see what your changes have done?.

Data logging would be great, but the premise behind UDC is if we set a value the ECM should use that value and it's not the UDC tuners ability to change that value.
Click to expand...

HUH??????..Contradict yourself here a bit?...
If we set a value would you not then agree that we,the tuner,have changed the value and then the ECM will use it?

Data logging doesn't tell you what is safe, or effective, it just tells you if you set the limiters to match your tables. If we don't have to worry about the limiters you can do a lot of tuning without data logging. Either way the driver has to know at what rpm/load he isn't happy, data logging doesn't pick up the likes and dislikes of the driver so there is always going to be some input needed.
Click to expand...

Your correct on part of this one,data logging doesn't tell you what is safe nor does UDC without it.If an owner is worried about safe tunes then he needs to keep the truck stock as even the smallest tune/tuner can break parts or cause failures.Data logging does tell you what is effective as it gives you real world info on what each change has done to the performance of the motor during the rpm runs,no matter if it is strapped or street driven for the info.Data logging will pick up driving styles and allow you to see how your changes affect the truck on the street.There are plenty of owners here using the logging capabilities to log their track runs to make adjustments to their tunes to have the truck run for the conditions it is presented with.Its no different than what any other racer does with their gassers.

Even with data logging you have the same changes of getting the first tune right with UDC as EFI, because the first tune is always just a guess of what will work the the motor/mods/use.
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I would disagree with that...
You have a much better chance with a log of what your truck is doing over any guess or canned tune to start with.You build your phantom UDC tune for a customers truck that is 3-4 states away that you have never seen and your trying tell me and everyone reading this thread that your UDC guess will be better the first time than a truck that is at a shop being logged and tuned.I do not think so.Better yet I will call BS and then say if thats the case then with a simple list of my trucks hard parts then you should be able to create a tune that should outrun the UDC tune I spent days and many strapped runs to make.I say you will not get within 100 hp of that run with your best dark territory guess you can create without seeing the truck and having hands on capabilities.

I am by no means saying I don't want to see data logging with UDC (quite the opposite actually), I am just pointing out that once you get used to tuning without it that it's not as big of a deal as many people make it out to be. Marco has set us up with limits to match the base tune, and that's where EFI and UDC differ.
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The ability to log what the truck is doing is a key ingredient that needs to be added to UDC.I like Smarty and their products and still use them on 3 of our other trucks however IMO UDC is nothing more than a larger version of the SSR guessing game without the ability to log.UDC has the ability to be a great product and with it being able to service the 03-05 owners it does have a leg up but imagine how out of the ballpark better it could be if they would give us an option to log.Until that happens any remote tuning with UDC is a dart board game being played in the dark.

Randy,your welcome and I can attest that the trip is well worth it and the 7 hour ride home would be full of plenty of stories to be talked about.Just remember you have been warned about Mike's chili and I already have the placards for it here,LOL!

Mike....
Do we really need to discuss why we all know this???....TMI!
 
wonder if flapjacks has data logging? I'd like to see that log from when Zach was there, might clue me in on what the hell happened Saturday night, say from 7 pm, till 2am
 
Hammer said:
How are you throwing darts with EFI when the truck is telling you what it is doing and you have real world data to see what your changes have done?.
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You have to adjust the limiters with EFI correct? If you miss a limiter it doesn't matter what you set the maps to, it won't go there. That is why data logging is required, with UDC it's not an issue for the tuner to deal with.

Hammer said:
HUH??????..Contradict yourself here a bit?...
If we set a value would you not then agree that we,the tuner,have changed the value and then the ECM will use it?
Click to expand...

Only if you set the limiters correctly, again, not an issue for the UDC tuner.

Hammer said:
Your correct on part of this one,data logging doesn't tell you what is safe nor does UDC without it.If an owner is worried about safe tunes then he needs to keep the truck stock as even the smallest tune/tuner can break parts or cause failures.Data logging does tell you what is effective as it gives you real world info on what each change has done to the performance of the motor during the rpm runs,no matter if it is strapped or street driven for the info.Data logging will pick up driving styles and allow you to see how your changes affect the truck on the street.There are plenty of owners here using the logging capabilities to log their track runs to make adjustments to their tunes to have the truck run for the conditions it is presented with.Its no different than what any other racer does with their gassers.
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Yeah, plenty of good info can come from logging. There are times when it's just too hard, or too fast to watch all the gauges.

Hammer said:
I would disagree with that...
You have a much better chance with a log of what your truck is doing over any guess or canned tune to start with.You build your phantom UDC tune for a customers truck that is 3-4 states away that you have never seen and your trying tell me and everyone reading this thread that your UDC guess will be better the first time than a truck that is at a shop being logged and tuned.I do not think so.Better yet I will call BS and then say if thats the case then with a simple list of my trucks hard parts then you should be able to create a tune that should outrun the UDC tune I spent days and many strapped runs to make.I say you will not get within 100 hp of that run with your best dark territory guess you can create without seeing the truck and having hands on capabilities.
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How do you have a data log before the first tune?

I guess I didn't realize you were comparing in shop tuning with EFI to remote tuning with UDC. I was comparing in shop vs in shop, or remote vs remote. Too many variables to mix in shop with remote, even on the same tuning platform.


Hammer said:
The ability to log what the truck is doing is a key ingredient that needs to be added to UDC.I like Smarty and their products and still use them on 3 of our other trucks however IMO UDC is nothing more than a larger version of the SSR guessing game without the ability to log.UDC has the ability to be a great product and with it being able to service the 03-05 owners it does have a leg up but imagine how out of the ballpark better it could be if they would give us an option to log.Until that happens any remote tuning with UDC is a dart board game being played in the dark.
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I don't see it as a guessing game with UDC. Each tuner (JR, SO6, SSR) gives you a different limit in UDC, those limits are already established in the base tune limiters in the ECM. So if I select 32° of timing at a certain load/rpm with SSR UDC then it runs 32°. I am not guessing, the homework has been done and I can input numbers into my tables that will work.
 
AH64ID said:
The big difference with UDC and EFI is that UDC uses an established base tune, so the parameters in which we can set are already enabled. UDC is not throwing darts in the same aspect that it can be with EFI, since UDC is not using a stock tune as the starter tune.

Data logging would be great, but the premise behind UDC is if we set a value the ECM should use that value and it's not the UDC tuners ability to change that value. Data logging doesn't tell you what is safe, or effective, it just tells you if you set the limiters to match your tables. If we don't have to worry about the limiters you can do a lot of tuning without data logging. Either way the driver has to know at what rpm/load he isn't happy, data logging doesn't pick up the likes and dislikes of the driver so there is always going to be some input needed.

Data logging would help with trouble rpms/loads, but if the end user has one of several gauges you can work off of those numbers in combination with the tach to determine where in the map the tune needs tweaking. Data logging does make this easier, but it is certainly not a requirement for tuning if you know the correlation of all the maps.

Even with data logging you have the same changes of getting the first tune right with UDC as EFI, because the first tune is always just a guess of what will work the the motor/mods/use.

I am by no means saying I don't want to see data logging with UDC (quite the opposite actually), I am just pointing out that once you get used to tuning without it that it's not as big of a deal as many people make it out to be. Marco has set us up with limits to match the base tune, and that's where EFI and UDC differ.
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What?!!! logging doesnt tell you what is effective??? so when your truck has issues in the tuning you can see where those issues are with udc? Cause I know i can go into a log with efi and watch where a problem accures. Also Idnt what method people are using for finding what the truck likes best as far a rp and pulse with udc your guessing cause I know unless you have a logger or scanner you will not be able to see what actuall rp is achieving or a deman rate.... Idk why tuners all of a sudden dont think logging is a great tool.... its the only tool that make efi what it is...as far a base tables.... yeah he gives you a sw file opened up.. i love udc on my 04 but would kill for efi...$.02
 
How does data logging tell you what the issue is? Does it log what is making the smoke, high EGT's, or lack of power? No it doesn't, that is up to the tuner to determine what caused the issue.

With a RP gauge you can sure tell what is being achieved, match your load/rpm/RP maps and see if its giving what you commanded. Is it faster with data logging, you bet it is, but it can be done the old fashioned way.

I don't know who said it wasn't a great tool, but it's just that.. a tool. There are other ways to tune, and they can be just as effective.

Data logging has no way of telling you if the maps are optimized for the motor, it just tells you what is going on. To me effective means making the most of your fuel, and that's in the maps and what happens in the cylinder, unless EFI has a sensor added to the cylinder you don't know what the ignition delay is, what the peak cylinder pressure is, or when it occurs... those type of numbers are what tells you if it's effective, not what the commanded pulse width, timing, or rail pressure are. Those numbers tell you if your maps are matched to your base tune and motor modifications.

I would love for UDC to offer data logging, it would save a lot of time in fine tuning things. I would also kill for a few more tables to adjust, but as of now my truck has never run better thanks to UDC.
 
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how do you know what load map to look at with a rail pressure gauge?
 
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