99 Chevy 3500 HD (CK) 6.5 to dmax

6 speed Ally weighs 330lbs, and with your current tires (32") and gears (4.63), you will turn 1960RPM at 65MPH and 2260RPM at 75MPH. Even at 75MPH, you will have TWO downshifts available without reducing speed. Just sayin... :poke:

OTOH, the Ally won't let you feel like a big rig driver, so that's a drawback LOL
 
6 speed Ally weighs 330lbs, and with your current tires (32") and gears (4.63), you will turn 1960RPM at 65MPH and 2260RPM at 75MPH. Even at 75MPH, you will have TWO downshifts available without reducing speed. Just sayin... :poke:

OTOH, the Ally won't let you feel like a big rig driver, so that's a drawback LOL

ally 1000 is rated for max 30000gvwr
fs(o) 6406 is rated for max 39000gvwr

gues you missed the part where faster things spin then more power they take. and milage is top priority next to reliability
 
yeah im barely a week into being up and running.. get this repair bill paids and start collecting parts

I know that drill, I have 2 daughters.. $$ goes fast... mine has been a 3 year deal, I wait and find what I need for a good deal.. what you have will work for a year or two... you should get a lot of miles out of it if you treat it right...

and it beets buying a new truck and putting 60-100k on it a year...

just as info, I have seen 3500hd's with 400+ on the chassis still going, for what you are doing you picked a real good combo..

and i think you are on the right track avoiding the 1000 series allison, I have seen several with cracked cases, they are $$$ to fix and the used ones here go for $$ if you can find one....4l80's you can get parts easy, and if you are down and need one asap, the GM serta program rebuilds are reasonable and come with a 3 year replacement...
 
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ally 1000 is rated for max 30000gvwr
fs(o) 6406 is rated for max 39000gvwr

You're planning on loading your ONE TON pickup to over 30k? :badidea: If you wanna play Billy Big Rig, buy a big rig.

gues you missed the part where faster things spin then more power they take. and milage is top priority next to reliability

I didn't miss it at all. I had the same idea a couple years ago, and I tried it. 12V Cummins, SM465 manual (1:1 final ratio), and 3.42 gears with 37" tires. With new tires I turned 2050RPM at 65MPH, and around 2350 at 75. In theory, the less parasitic drag with no OD should have let me get better mileage. In reality, the guys with heavier Dodge trucks, no front hub locks (so, more parasitic driveline loss) and OD transmissions that turned a mere 200 fewer RPMs got better mileage than I did.

As it turns out, engine efficiency at higher RPMs drops much faster than the bit of extra loss caused by OD operation. Ideally, the engine gets best fuel economy when operating at it's torque peak, which is 1600RPM for the Duramax. With a non-OD trans and 3.31 gears you will need 44" tires to get in that RPM range at 65MPH. If you run an FSO, which has .78 OD, and the same 3.31 gears, you can get in that RPM range with 35" tires. Your current 4L80E is even better: 3.31's and 33" tires nets you 1642RPM at 65MPH. Unfortunately, it has a mediocre (for hauling) 1st gear ratio, and a terrible reverse ratio (backing a heavy trailer with a 2.08 reverse gear blows - BTDT). And it has nowhere near the GCW rating of the other transmissions were discussing. Although, interestingly, you disparage the Ally's mere 30k rating rather than in the much lower rating of the 4L80E you're running now :rolleyes:

The Allison has a .61 OD, so you no longer have to run 3.31's to get the low cruise RPMs. You get there with 4.10's and 32" tires, which is what you have right now. 1st gear is 3.10, reverse is 4.49, so taking off and backing up is much easier.

Then there is the issue of bolting it to the engine and making it work. Ever looked into what it takes to adapt a Fuller to a Duramax?

After a reality check, you will find your best options are A) Stick with what you have now, B) Swap in an Allison, or C) Swap in a ZF 6 speed.
 
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and i think you are on the right track avoiding the 1000 series allison, I have seen several with cracked cases, they are $$$ to fix and the used ones here go for $$ if you can find one....4l80's you can get parts easy, and if you are down and need one asap, the GM serta program rebuilds are reasonable and come with a 3 year replacement...

I've never seen a cracked case on an Allison. Cracked bellhousing, yes, cracked tailhousing, yes. Both easily avoidable. I've seen way more broken cases on 4L80E's. Some broke from the same avoidable causes that break Ally's (I've seen broken ZF 6 speed manuals as well - same causes), others break the lugs in the case that retain the intermediate clutch snap ring, and others blow the low-reverse band lugs out of the case when the trans builds excessive, uncontrolled line pressure in reverse ( a common 4L80E issue).

Not sure of the parts cost issues in Reno, but around here good low-mile 6 speed Allys go for $1200-$1500 at wrecking yards. By low mile,I'm talking 60k or less. These things run for 250k+ miles in stock trucks that tow regularly. Any GM dealer can get you a reman replacement, Allison dealers can rebuild them. or you can get it rebuilt by any of a number of excellent rebuilders around the country who specialize in making them better than new. It will cost more than a 4L80E, but no more than a Dodge 47 or 48 or a Ford 5R110, and it is way more tranny then any 4L80 (or Dodge or Ford trans for that matter).

Keep in mind that, unlike you, I've been into all of these transmissions. I've seen the good and the bad. I chose the Ally to use behind my Cummins over the 48RE because it's a better transmission, despite what the Dodge guys want to believe. There IS a reason it weighs more than twice as much as a 48RE or 4L80E. And there's a reason it costs more: because it's worth it.
 
dont agree with you at all

You're planning on loading your ONE TON pickup to over 30k? :badidea: If you wanna play Billy Big Rig, buy a big rig.

We arn't dealing with a 1 ton here, the 3500hd's were rated between 14k an 18k, and BTW take a look around most hot freight guys are set up for 36k gross 12k on the truck and 24k on the trailer, and that is with a 1 tons.. I have a good friend who puts 100k a year on a dodge 1 ton hauling cars, due to the difference in fuel consumption he makes as much as he did with a semi. There are times when small works better..his current truck has 350k on it and no major issues.

I didn't miss it at all. I had the same idea a couple years ago, and I tried it. 12V Cummins, SM465 manual (1:1 final ratio), and 3.42 gears with 37" tires. With new tires I turned 2050RPM at 65MPH, and around 2350 at 75. In theory, the less paras[/B][/B]itic drag with no OD should have let me get better mileage. In reality, the guys with heavier Dodge trucks, no front hub locks (so, more parasitic driveline loss) and OD transmissions that turned a mere 200 fewer RPMs got better mileage than I did.

37" tires, ya had a set on my first gen dodge went from 22mpg to 13mpg.. the rolling mass is huge.. not to mention the wind drag. My 3500hd has a smaller frontal area than any dodge i have had and with tall skinny 19.5s it rolls alot easier. and do over 20mpg at 8500lbs empty..

As it turns out, engine efficiency at higher RPMs drops much faster than the bit of extra loss caused by OD operation. Ideally, the engine gets best fuel economy when operating at it's torque peak, which is 1600RPM for the Duramax. With a non-OD trans and 3.31 gears you will need 44" tires to get in that RPM range at 65MPH. If you run an FSO, which has .78 OD, and the same 3.31 gears, you can get in that RPM range with 35" tires. Your current 4L80E is even better: 3.31's and 33" tires nets you 1642RPM at 65MPH. Unfortunately, it has a mediocre (for hauling) 1st gear ratio, and a terrible reverse ratio (backing a heavy trailer with a 2.08 reverse gear blows - BTDT). And it has nowhere near the GCW rating of the other transmissions were discussing. Although, interestingly, you disparage the Ally's mere 30k rating rather than in the much lower rating of the 4L80E you're running now :rolleyes:

Then explain why almost none of the medium duty trucks are specked that way, they almost all have non overdrive fullers in them even the over the road ones they run high gears and a direct trans, the only ones I have seen with FSO's are the Fedex expediter trucks and the reason for them is they run 70+ all the time...

The Allison has a .61 OD, so you no longer have to run 3.31's to get the low cruise RPMs. You get there with 4.10's and 32" tires, which is what you have right now. 1st gear is 3.10, reverse is 4.49, so taking off and backing up is much easier.

Then there is the issue of bolting it to the engine and making it work. Ever looked into what it takes to adapt a Fuller to a Duramax?

After a reality check, you will find your best options are A) Stick with what you have now, B) Swap in an Allison, or C) Swap in a ZF 6 speed.
 
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And I don't care, at all.

35v33a.jpg


The guy is building his truck for hauling, not off-roading. I know of 4 people with 5spd and 6spd Allys that had to have rebuilds before 120k miles. They are farmers who haul and don't hot rod there truck. Now, overload, yes.

Did you even read the whole thread?
 
on adapting the duramax to a sae #2, Phoenix Castings has an adapter to go to sae #3 or sae #2... Had to do some digging knew it had been done for industrial applications..

MaxPF wasn't trying to pick a fight just state facts

I dont know where you are at but here in the mountains a 1000 series allison that has been used (farmers/ranchers) even with 60k miles start at 1500 go up(norcal prices), and is a big ??? on reliabilty Most of the ranchers up here are buying either cummins dodges or chevys with 6.0 gas motors they seem more reliable for the abuse they throw at them.. and alot cheeper to fix..

Now I live at 4k feet and tow to over 8500 feet to go wheeling, do the same with a duramax and allison they dont live 250k... definately not with a gooseneck behind them and 300+hp/550ft/lb.. Nevada is like Texas west with mountains, hot dry with alot of elevation change.. and we use and abuse trucks I have seen what lives and what breaks.. gross combined 26k with a allison and a 300hp is a recipe for problems here , .. they may work where you are...
 
35v33a.jpg


The guy is building his truck for hauling, not off-roading. I know of 4 people with 5spd and 6spd Allys that had to have rebuilds before 120k miles. They are farmers who haul and don't hot rod there truck. Now, overload, yes.

Did you even read the whole thread?

So, don't overload the truck. It ain't rocket science. You know, there IS a reason manufacturers make bigger trucks. You can either A) Use the truck within it's ratings, B) Get a bigger truck with higher ratings, or C) Overload the smaller truck and accept that it won't last as long.

And yes, I know he is building the truck for hauling. My example of tire sizes was to illustrate the fact that he will never achieve efficient cruise RPMs with a non-OD trans unless he ran a ridiculously (for a hauler) large tire.

on adapting the duramax to a sae #2, Phoenix Castings has an adapter to go to sae #3 or sae #2... Had to do some digging knew it had been done for industrial applications..

For a 6 speed Fuller swap, you need SAE #2. Eaton doesn't list SAE 3 bellhousings as an option for the 6 speed FS/FSO series. SAE #2's are bulkier, but IIRC the 3500HD's have a factory body lift that should give extra tunnel clearance. He may still need to do some tunnel surgery though...

MaxPF wasn't trying to pick a fight just state facts

I dont know where you are at but here in the mountains a 1000 series allison that has been used (farmers/ranchers) even with 60k miles start at 1500 go up(norcal prices), and is a big ??? on reliabilty Most of the ranchers up here are buying either cummins dodges or chevys with 6.0 gas motors they seem more reliable for the abuse they throw at them.. and alot cheeper to fix..

Around here, $1200-$1500 is the norm for a trans with 30k-60k miles.

Now I live at 4k feet and tow to over 8500 feet to go wheeling, do the same with a duramax and allison they dont live 250k... definately not with a gooseneck behind them and 300+hp/550ft/lb.. Nevada is like Texas west with mountains, hot dry with alot of elevation change.. and we use and abuse trucks I have seen what lives and what breaks.. gross combined 26k with a allison and a 300hp is a recipe for problems here , .. they may work where you are...

I live in the Phoenix area. Many guys use for a diesel is pulling a large camper or toy hauler up to the mountans where it's cooler. So, 1000ft up to 6500-9000ft, depending on where you go. My last trip up to the high country was to a place called Big Lake, which sits right at 9000ft.

As for longevity, well, again you used the term "abuse", which always implies lower lifespan. Guys who use their trucks get good life out of their auto trans or clutch. Guys that abuse them get less. A friend of mine just lost his crappy DMF in his DMax truck with the ZF 6 speed. IIRC he's at 70k miles, and he doesn't abuse his truck, but he does run with a heavy cabover camper and 12k lbs trailer. I won't even go into the longevity (actually, lack thereof) of Dodge automatics under similar use. Or Fords autos. One nice thing about the Allison - the hard parts are so robust that a rebuild means a new converter and clutches. Can't say the same for the Dodges and Fords. Or the 4L80E for that matter...
 
Good talking to you lastnight Adam.
I'am thinking real hard on the deal I talked to you about lastnight.I was called off work again today this is realy getting old.

Dale
 
the 3500hd has a 6inch factory body lift sort of.. its the 10" C of the frame, the frame is just 6 inches taller, plus if yours has the reinforcing plates it adds another 2 inches to the bottom.. .

hey MaxPF you know allisons, i have never seen a 1000 series next to a md3060, I know there is about 200lbs difference but how much size,

I saw one for sale the other day with low miles out of a bus for about 1000$ (with everything), I see they are rated for 800ft/lbs.. and at 575lbs with a converter they wern't as heavy as I thought..

Just trying to throw out another idea, and learn a little..
 
the 3500hd has a 6inch factory body lift sort of.. its the 10" C of the frame, the frame is just 6 inches taller, plus if yours has the reinforcing plates it adds another 2 inches to the bottom.. .

hey MaxPF you know allisons, i have never seen a 1000 series next to a md3060, I know there is about 200lbs difference but how much size,

I saw one for sale the other day with low miles out of a bus for about 1000$ (with everything), I see they are rated for 800ft/lbs.. and at 575lbs with a converter they wern't as heavy as I thought..

Just trying to throw out another idea, and learn a little..

They're big. They're made for class 5-8 trucks with 7-10 liter engines. SAE #2 housings. Maybe SAE #1 on some models. They're also an old model of transmission, dating from the early-mid 90's. The HS3000 is the modern, improved version, rated for up to 80,000lbs. Anyway, they won't fit without massive tunnel surgery. They are strictly 2wd only (no married t-case option). They have no park pawl (driveline brake or air brakes). They're also rated for a max input RPM of 2800, which is below what the Duramax (or a ISB Cummins for that matter) has for a redline RPM. A 1000 with a triple disk converter, Alto clutches, SK Jr. and converter valve kit would get the job done in a package that is more practical for a pickup chassis.

Since someone will inevitably ask about it, the 2000 series Allison is the same as the 1000 series - they are identical transmissions, inside and out. They have different options and software, and in some cases different ratios, but physically they are the same trans. The 26000lb limit on the 1000 and certain 2000's are due mainly to the parking pawl. Models without a pawl are rated up to 33,000lbs.
 
the Cab mounts are identical to the std 3500 and smaller trucks the front is different in that the frame horns drop down 2" to meet the front spring shackle instead of staying up like the IFS trucks.
the only thing different is the front core support and lower part of the grill the upper part is identical to the IFS trucks.
dont forget about the 3000 or 4000 series allisons.

with the SAE 2 od being 19.25"
and sae 3 17.75" there is plenty of room for either of said bell housing on my setup.
http://www.perfprotech.com/store/App_Themes/PPT/images/tech-specs/bell_housing_dimensions.pdf
 
wondering how you MPG is doing now that you are hauling and if you have had any other issues..
 
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