Any expected PPL rule changes for 2017

I agree/disagree with kjp. New cr deck plate block vs Hamilton block... Hamilton is gonna be cheaper. Factor in longer rods $2200-$3400 (unless you don't have rods already), cam bearings $600, deck plate/sleeves $1500- $2000 + machine work.
My concern would be how much a solid cast block moves after going through the heat cycles they'd see in a pulling application. Or how strong the block would really be taking them bigger then what a sleeved motor could be. If a guy was starting from scratch(no rods, no studs, pistons and got a cheap 6.7 block) they would be further ahead and stronger to go deck plate imo. Now if they were wanting to reuse everything they had just to get stronger block I'd say Hamilton. Just my opinions, open for discussion.
 
9724VF350 said:
I'd be a bit nervous about using carrillo's in something of this nature, but that's just preference.
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I've seen Carrillo's hold up in a 2k motor, it just all depends on the application. But earlier I was referring to a different manufactures rods for the same price as Carrillo brand.


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kjpcummins said:
$110 each thick wall flanged. I've never bought a set of 7 and not sure why you would need to. I'm not sure why you seem to think I'm making these numbers up out of thin air.
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Because crap happens. that's why you get a spare or 2 when they're custom. Every time I build something with custom sleeves and/or pistons the customer takes 2 spares home with him.

So 770-880 if you want to base it off that, but whatever. Not too far from 1k when you get them shipped.

Anyhow, I'm out. I've been there, done this more than once. I've made my own deck plates and girdles on a Bridgeport, bored, honed, fitted, dowled, drilled and tapped, made the metal chips with my own hands. I know what it takes.

Based on the low side of your own figures, you allowed yourself $1450 for the deck plate, cleaning, mag, fill, bore, hone, surface, fit, drill, tap, dowel, and a few other things. Good luck with that.
 
Hamilton's website says block comes with cam bearings throughout and it ready for billet steel cams. 54mm I think. And can come prepped for newer larger core cams.
 
Last time I checked the hamilton block doesn't come with extra cylinder walls so no need to add that into the cost. Based on what you call low numbers I posted above there would be $1890 left for deck plate, fill, drill/tap studs, and bore/hone/deck.
 
JL Builders said:
Hamilton's website says block comes with cam bearings throughout and it ready for billet steel cams. 54mm I think. And can come prepped for newer larger core cams.
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The current ones only have them in front and rear journals. Future ones will have them through the whole block is what zach has posted.
 
kjpcummins said:
The current ones only have them in front and rear journals. Future ones will have them through the whole block is what zach has posted.
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No, he said the current ones are line bored for cam bushings already. Next order will have them installed.

I've looked at doing a deck plate motor for some time now. I've priced it from several people. It is without a doubt much more expensive than Hamiltons solid block. You may a have an advantage if you can do your own machine work. But the vast majority of us pay for machining.
 
kjpcummins said:
Last time I checked the hamilton block doesn't come with extra cylinder walls so no need to add that into the cost. Based on what you call low numbers I posted above there would be $1890 left for deck plate, fill, drill/tap studs, and bore/hone/deck.
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I took the liberty of rounding sleeves up to $700 since the ups truck doesn't do chit free.

Then you figure in your $500 to drill/tap mains and head studs. $1450.

Yes, I said the words drill and tap when I threw out the $1450 number, I wasn't talking about main and head studs. What the fukk do you think is going to hold the deck plate to the top of the block? Unicorn jizz?
 
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97rada said:
So I can purchase a 6.7 block and have a deck plate and sleeves for less then 3900? That included line bore and cam
Bushings ? With me filling it correct. That seems like a pretty good deal
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No. We've built almost a dozen deckplate engines in the last few years and the amount of mis-information in this thread is comical. And we get it all the time, everyone thinks machine work is free, most don't understand the amount of machine work, the process, and time it takes just to get a block ready to be assembled. Especially if doing a roller cam setup.
 
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SledPuller21 said:
No. We've built almost a dozen deckplate engines in the last few years and the amount of mis-information in this thread is comical. And we get it all the time, everyone thinks machine work is free, most don't understand the amount of machine work, the process, and time it takes just to get a block ready to be assembled. Especially if doing a roller cam setup.
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I figured and know what it takes to get that stuff done. It's more time then I care to spend on an engine right now. Building my own tooling for cam bushings was enough.
 
9724VF350 said:
I took the liberty of rounding sleeves up to $700 since the ups truck doesn't do chit free.

Then you figure in your $500 to drill/tap mains and head studs. $1450.

Yes, I said the words drill and tap when I threw out the $1450 number, I wasn't talking about main and head studs. What the fukk do you think is going to hold the deck plate to the top of the block? Unicorn jizz?
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Bolting the deck plate to the block is an extra step that people do. It's not really needed. This step doesnt even take that long it's more of an extra step to tack a large amount onto the bill.
 
Just curious, has anyone done dyno testing with the BD 3.0 Smooth bore turbo?
 
kjpcummins said:
Bolting the deck plate to the block is an extra step that people do. It's not really needed. This step doesnt even take that long it's more of an extra step to tack a large amount onto the bill.
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So then your going to end up with a block that is weaker than a stock block from a lift failure standpoint.

Fukk of a plan. Not a good plan, but technically it is a plan.
 
kjpcummins said:
Bolting the deck plate to the block is an extra step that people do. It's not really needed. This step doesnt even take that long it's more of an extra step to tack a large amount onto the bill.
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You should start building deck plate short blocks immediately. Sell them for less than $3900 and they will fly off the shelves.
 
kjpcummins said:
Bolting the deck plate to the block is an extra step that people do. It's not really needed. This step doesnt even take that long it's more of an extra step to tack a large amount onto the bill.
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Your correct, it's not needed if you don't care about doing a proper job. We bolt the deckplate all the way into the main webs, (17) 1/2" cap screws to be exact, that helps tie the whole unit together and strengthen the top and bottom end. But then again, if your building 1200hp engines you might get away with the kind of work your referring too.
 
While this thread is active, why has no one with PPL entertained the idea of removing the restrictions for complete OEM sheet metal in the dog house, fire wall, and bed floor in the 3.0 Smooth Bore Class? Nearly everyone has already transitioned to Open Driveline. Does anyone prefer the term serviceability? Why would anyone in their right mind want to continue laying on the floor or going to the trouble to remove the cab and bed to work on stuff these days. Allow tilt bodies and get it over with. The Smooth Bore class has long surpassed the days of a visual on the road diesel truck. It's time we lose the meaningless rules that limit our ability to work efficiently on our trucks. Hell half the trucks out there running now are getting by with gaping holes in: floor boards, bed floors, and fire walls. Countless trucks run composite windshields and body panels. Has this not happened simply because they are afraid that the 3.6 Trucks will jump down and hook? Even if this was the case surely if they want to remove their cut tires and swap chargers they are back on the same playing field as the rest of the class. Does anyone else have an opinion on this?
 
AllIn2010 said:
While this thread is active, why has no one with PPL entertained the idea of removing the restrictions for complete OEM sheet metal in the dog house, fire wall, and bed floor in the 3.0 Smooth Bore Class? Nearly everyone has already transitioned to Open Driveline. Does anyone prefer the term serviceability? Why would anyone in their right mind want to continue laying on the floor or going to the trouble to remove the cab and bed to work on stuff these days. Allow tilt bodies and get it over with. The Smooth Bore class has long surpassed the days of a visual on the road diesel truck. It's time we lose the meaningless rules that limit our ability to work efficiently on our trucks. Hell half the trucks out there running now are getting by with gaping holes in: floor boards, bed floors, and fire walls. Countless trucks run composite windshields and body panels. Has this not happened simply because they are afraid that the 3.6 Trucks will jump down and hook? Even if this was the case surely if they want to remove their cut tires and swap chargers they are back on the same playing field as the rest of the class. Does anyone else have an opinion on this?
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Completely agree!
 
^^^ why not jump up a class or do like some other classes and do 2 frames one to tilt the cab
 
97rada said:
^^^ why not jump up a class or do like some other classes and do 2 frames one to tilt the cab
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The cost variance may not be all that much to run 3.6 compared to Smooth Bore however, not everyone has the ability to run 300-500 miles away every weekend to the only 3.6 Hooks in the country. Any given weekend you can find a 2.6/3.0 class in Ohio, Ky, Indiana or Tennessee. The concept isn't about changing classes. Its about eliminating the irrelevant rules that have been in place since 2007 and no longer serve a purpose.
 
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